7D have 24p but why not 5DM2 - Page 4 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD

Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD
APS-C sensor cameras including the 80D, 70D, 7D Mk. II, 7D, EOS M and Rebel models for HD video recording.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 1st, 2009, 02:56 PM   #46
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Darling View Post
It's so cheap that it might make sense for many to own both a 5D Mk II and a 7D.
This is what Canon is expecting. I had enough. I will sell off my 5DMkII and get a proper video cam. Its just too much hassle with the un-video ergonomics, you have to spend a fortune in order to make it at least a little suitable for video shooting and then you still stuck with a format and frame rate used nowhere in the video production. Processing, then quality not good, eh...
__________________
Sony XDCAM EX1r, Canon 5DMkII, Røde NTG2, Røde NT1000, Røde Stereo Videomic, Sachtler DV6 SB on Gitzo 1325V, Steadicam Merlin, Omnitracker, Hackintosh 3.5Ghz Quad 8Gb RAM
Zsolt Gordos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 03:12 PM   #47
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 4,121
I believe that Canon etc offered the HD option originally for news stills photographers to meet the demands of news organisations like Reuters to shot video for their web pages without also sending out a video crew, which is why the cameras came out with only 30p and the auto controls.

The demand from film makers seems to have been an unexpected market, so these first generation cameras may not have the flexibility built in to be upgraded as quickly as people want.
Brian Drysdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 03:41 PM   #48
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Brian, to a T you have described it exactly the way I heard it too.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 03:44 PM   #49
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommi Hares View Post
but the hardware of the 7D is not in par with the 5D Mark II hardware (5D2 hardware is MUCH better). I mean the 5D2 - in all areas - out performs the 7D. The ONLY thing the 7D has, is MORE SOFTWARE SETTINGS.
As a hardcore photographer, and someone who owns a 5D2 among other bodies, I'm not so sure. Here's a couple of examples from the spec sheet:

Quote:
The EOS 7D also incorporates a new metering system. The Focus Colour Luminance metering system (iFCL) intelligently measures focus, colour and luminance, across 63 zones. Complementing the 19 AF points, the dual layer sensor is able to gather information from each distinct zone to obtain a more accurate and consistent exposure.
Now maybe that's done with only software, but I doubt it.

Quote:
The EOS 7D features a 19-point cross-type AF sensor, enabling photographers to achieve accurate shots and optimise composition options. This improved AF system offers a range of manual and automatic settings including Zone and Spot AF to track and capture subjects quickly and accurately.
Hmmm... Not sure but I think my 5D2 has only 9 points, only ONE of which is cross type. Somehow I doubt that's just a software improvement.

Anyway, I absolutely love my 5D2, and as primarily a photographer, I'd never give up my FF just because of the wide angles. Not to say I wouldn't own a cropped body as a second, I would, and I do right now, so the 7D is actually looking mighty impressive to me at this point.

Last edited by Bill Binder; September 1st, 2009 at 04:42 PM.
Bill Binder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 03:49 PM   #50
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
I believe that Canon etc offered the HD option originally for news stills photographers to meet the demands of news organisations like Reuters to shot video for their web pages without also sending out a video crew, which is why the cameras came out with only 30p and the auto controls.

The demand from film makers seems to have been an unexpected market, so these first generation cameras may not have the flexibility built in to be upgraded as quickly as people want.
Bryan, this only indicates their marketing and R&D folks were sitting in a heavily sealed vault all the time and followed no forums in the past 2-3 years, when all talking was about how to make the flat video looks more alive with various tricks. Redrock, Letus and let me not list all the makers of little black boxes that ripped millions of bucks from the wallets of those who wanted to use their Canon still lenses for better DOF. Canon guys never noticed that? Hmm, hard to believe. And excuse moi... I bend over in front of mighty Reuters, but how many bloody news photographers do they have (let alone all of them use Nikon)? is that A market? DA market??
The so called film makers market today is rapidly growing as no one wants to shoot video-ish looking videos anymore. Not even a wedding videographer. Now the borderline between amateur and pro is not the beach panning style anymore but the existence or lack of DOF and the PQ that only a good lens can deliver.
__________________
Sony XDCAM EX1r, Canon 5DMkII, Røde NTG2, Røde NT1000, Røde Stereo Videomic, Sachtler DV6 SB on Gitzo 1325V, Steadicam Merlin, Omnitracker, Hackintosh 3.5Ghz Quad 8Gb RAM
Zsolt Gordos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 04:40 PM   #51
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Binder View Post
I absolutely love my 5D2, and as primarily a photography, I'd never give up my FF just because of the wide angles. Not to say I wouldn't own a cropped body as a second, I would, and I do right now, so the 7D is actually looking mighty impressive to me at this point.
I'm in the same boat. I really enjoy my 5D Mk. II primarily for taking photos, and I'm keeping it -- and I'm looking for a way to justify buying the EF 14mm f/2.8 L II rectilinear for it. And it looks like I'll be a 7D customer as well... all I need now is a fatter wallet.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 04:46 PM   #52
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tartu, Estonia
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
EF 14mm f/2.8 L II rectilinear...
Pure Good. I've had FD and EF versions, priceless. The FD L version was so smooth and solid...

T
Toenis Liivamaegi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 04:51 PM   #53
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
all I need now is a fatter wallet.
Or we need the Administration to authorize a clunker buyout for video/photo gear. I got an FX1 with a bad firewire port I would trade....
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos
Chris Barcellos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 04:58 PM   #54
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rochester, NY usa
Posts: 75
Anybody see any information on file size and file size limits? I'm sure hoping I can record a longer sequence than 12-14 minutes or this all this new features are going to mean squat.

I ordered one today and would sell my GH1 which is my B cam, if I thought the file size limitation had been worked out. Hope I missed it, but haven't read anything about it so far.

Will be disappointed if the first reports of no manual audio settings are true.
Will also be disappointed if I can't record 30-60 minutes or more for one file.
Am already disappointed that the LCD is fixed.

Keeping my fingers crossed that there are more video settings to what they announced, but knowing Canon, I won't hold my breath.

Have the donations started to get T Hudson a 7D?
Jim Froom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 05:05 PM   #55
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tartu, Estonia
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Froom View Post
Anybody see any information on file size and file size limits? I'm sure hoping I can record a longer sequence than 12-14 minutes or this all this new features are going to mean squat.
It is still 12min or 4G for Hi Def basically

T
Toenis Liivamaegi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 05:53 PM   #56
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rochester, NY usa
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toenis Liivamaegi View Post
It is still 12min or 4G for Hi Def basically

T
How short sighted.

Just spent some more time on the Canon specs and I am not feeling full HDMI live out either.

Still not the complete package. Maybe Nikon will bring it.
Jim Froom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 05:57 PM   #57
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 4,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsolt Gordos View Post
Bryan, this only indicates their marketing and R&D folks were sitting in a heavily sealed vault all the time and followed no forums in the past 2-3 years, when all talking was about how to make the flat video looks more alive with various tricks. Redrock, Letus and let me not list all the makers of little black boxes that ripped millions of bucks from the wallets of those who wanted to use their Canon still lenses for better DOF. Canon guys never noticed that? Hmm, hard to believe. And excuse moi... I bend over in front of mighty Reuters, but how many bloody news photographers do they have (let alone all of them use Nikon)? is that A market? DA market??
.
I suspect stills camera manufacturers tend not to hang around video and film making forums. Quality film making is more than having a shallow DOF, some of the greatest films have a deep depth of field and a film's requirements may demand anything from a 1/3" to an IMAX camera.

If you're selling what is supposed to be a professional still camera system it is a market. Their demands have pushed the manufacture of fast telephoto lenses and other developments. The stills camera manufacturers will have seen that newspapers would have the same need for their web sites. Canon and Nikon are in competition and high end non-professionals also love having that pro kit, so increasing the production run.

People should bear in mind that most video cameras rarely, if ever have a 35mm adapter fitted.
Brian Drysdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 06:16 PM   #58
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommi Hares View Post
You should think this question from a "new customer" perspective. What incitement does the new customer have to buy the 5DmkII, if the 7D (on paper) out performs it?
You should think of this question from a "not a video person" perspective. These are still cameras, sold primarily and in greatest volume to still photographers. There are plenty of people who would choose the 5D over the 7D simply because of the full frame sensor, and who don't really care about the video differences. I see the 5D and 7D relationship to be more like that of the 1D and 1Ds - which one you buy depends on what type of shooting you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Csakany View Post
The same could be asked why didn't they enable full manual settings in video mode right off the bat on the 5D2, and had to release a firmware update to address this isssue?
Ok, but by the same token if it's a simple software issue why not enable the additional framerates when they released the manual control firmware update?

Quote:
One reason I've seen given is that Digic 4 may not support the frame rate; however, the 7D has the same processor (albeit 2 of them) and I don't see why a firmware couldn't implement these other modes. Besides, wouldn't 30p require more processing than 24p? After all, 24 fps represent a full 20% reduction in the number of frames to be captured and processed compared to 30.
It sounds logical to me, but I'm not a video engineer. It could be that it's not simply a question of processing power but of something in the nature of the hardware itself. I think you're right that they were caught off guard by the popularity of the video features. To me it seems plausible that there is some sort of hardware clock that regulates the rate at which data is read out from the sensor - if they weren't anticipating the demand for multiple or specific frame rates they might not have worried about that at design time because it had little or no bearing on the camera's primary use for still photography.
__________________
My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"
Evan Donn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 07:13 PM   #59
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rochester, NY usa
Posts: 75
I don't agree that the vast majority of users for this camera are photographers.

With all due respect, please show we another DSRL camera that didn't have HD video features and cost over $2500 that was sold out for 9 solid months. Nov-Sept here in the states. They are still hard to get.

I do not have any knowledge of the percentage of 5D mkII users whom bought this camera for HD purposes as their primary usage. However, my gut feeling is that there are as many video people using this camera as photographers.

My opinion is subjective. More a gut feeling. Does anyone have any objective information to shed light on this?
Jim Froom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2009, 07:39 PM   #60
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Sorry Jim, but I'll have to disagree with you.

I don't think the photographer to videographer ratio is anywhere near 50% for the 5D Mk. II. I think it's closer to 20% video, and that's being generous. But, like you, it's just a gut feeling I have. I'm unaware of any firm statistics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Froom View Post
please show we another DSRL camera that didn't have HD video features and cost over $2500 that was sold out for 9 solid months.
The first 5D. The original 5D. $3300 and impossible to get.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:26 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network