How the heck does Canon expect us to edit 5D2 videos? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 18th, 2009, 07:14 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 991
How the heck does Canon expect us to edit 5D2 videos?

I don't have my box here with me but what edition solution did Canon supply with the 5D2 or what did they recommend? Can't imagine them creating the 5D2 without coming out with a workable solution for editing on the PC..
Yang Wen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2009, 10:41 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Voorheesville, NY
Posts: 433
Canon used the Quicktime wrapper (MOV) format, so one would guess that they expected that any video editing would be done on Macs. MOV files can be made to work on PCs, but that relies on one installing at least the freeware QT Player. With QT installed, you get some semblance of editing with Sony Vegas and/or Adobe CS. But there are problems. Alternatively (and for a price) You can convert the MOV file to Cineform and not goof the color up, but then the sound is lost.

When you see all that, you have to figure that the 5D MKII is a DSLR that happens to also do HD video. Canon took the easy way out and designed the video to work on the Apple platform. If it manages to work somewhat on the PC, that apparently was okay with Canon. The demand is there from Canon 5D MKII PC users. Eventually the PC software will catch up.
Jay Bloomfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2009, 01:06 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 542
You make it sound like editing 5D2 files on a mac is a no brainer, I don't think that's true is it? Macs still suffer colorspace issues, no? QT doesn't expect 0-255 regardless of platform does it? Also, long GOP MP4 video isn't going to edit well (real time) on most systems, including macs, which is why folks are using ProRes, no?
Bill Binder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2009, 01:17 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 260
Seems like editing on a mac is not much different than on any other platform. You have to take extra steps on every platform to get the 0-255 range back.

I think the general consensus is that this is a problem with QuickTime and not the 5D Mark II camera.
Daniel Lipats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2009, 11:03 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Voorheesville, NY
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Binder View Post
You make it sound like editing 5D2 files on a mac is a no brainer, I don't think that's true is it? Macs still suffer colorspace issues, no? QT doesn't expect 0-255 regardless of platform does it? Also, long GOP MP4 video isn't going to edit well (real time) on most systems, including macs, which is why folks are using ProRes, no?

That wasn't really my point. I'm speculating that Canon positioned the 5D MKII as a DSLR that could be used by media outlet staff and other professionals who were mostly shooting stills, but might also have the need to shoot HD video. Talk about misjudging the market. All that's happened, is people who were looking for a video camera with a large sensor and interchangeable lenses in the sub $3K US range (ala the vaporware Red Scarlet) saw the 5D MKII as the solution to their needs. Now you've got a lot of people who are well-versed in videography owning this camera and trying to use it in a fashion not envisioned by Canon (well at least the marketing side of Canon).

But what Canon thought or didn't think originally when designing the 5D MKII is irrelevant, since both users and 3rd party software vendors are hard at work to "fix" some of the problems that people have noticed, with regard to editing the videos. And you are correct, that needs to be done on both Mac and PC platforms.

Last edited by Jay Bloomfield; January 19th, 2009 at 08:12 PM.
Jay Bloomfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2010, 09:11 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London UK
Posts: 33
Editing CANON MOV files can strain the fastest PCís, as I understand it the codec the CANON uses is designed to save space, this needs more power to decode and edit. The work around seems to be to transcode MOV files to a new format, this then makes it easier for current editors to work with the files.

So far Iíve found out the following different options

Option 1
Pinnacle Studio 14 can work with the native files, Iíve had a play with this and it does indeed open the Canon MOV files, I donít much care for the program though

Option 2
Transcode the files with Neoscene, costs $129 then you can work with the files in vegas/premier. Iíve not tried this option

So for the last week or two Iíve been stuck trying to find a cheapper option,i find a useful guide.

Solution for editing H.264/MOV footages shot by Canon EOS 7D?550D camera Ľ Camcorder Video Share

I hope it will be of great help for you

All regards
Hale Nanthan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Bloomfield View Post
Now you've got a lot of people who are well-versed in videography owning this camera and trying to use it in a fashion not envisioned by Canon (well at least the marketing side of Canon).
No, you've got a lot of people coming from miniDV and HDV who have no idea what to do with the camera. The workflow for professional users is essentially the same as what they've been doing for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Bloomfield View Post
But what Canon thought or didn't think originally when designing the 5D MKII is irrelevant, since both users and 3rd party software vendors are hard at work to "fix" some of the problems that people have noticed, with regard to editing the videos. And you are correct, that needs to be done on both Mac and PC platforms.
There doesn't need to be a "fix". A basic pro level workflow negates any issues in working with this format. The problem is that a great proportion of users coming from non-pro SD formats and HDV aren't used to handling professional codecs. So this is a huge departure for them.

You want to know how to handle HDSLR images? Treat the camera like film. Shoot it like a film camera, and handle post like a film camera.

Problem solved.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2010, 12:10 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
That software costs $35 & appears functionally identical to the very wonderful MPEG Streamclip which is free Squared 5 - MPEG Streamclip video converter for Mac and Windows

BTW We are currently discussing the various options available to ease editing of video from the Canon 5DII over in this thread http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...choice-5d.html
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2010, 12:40 AM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Bloomfield View Post
That wasn't really my point. I'm speculating that Canon positioned the 5D MKII as a DSLR that could be used by media outlet staff and other professionals who were mostly shooting stills, but might also have the need to shoot HD video. Talk about misjudging the market. All that's happened, is people who were looking for a video camera with a large sensor and interchangeable lenses in the sub $3K US range (ala the vaporware Red Scarlet) saw the 5D MKII as the solution to their needs. Now you've got a lot of people who are well-versed in videography owning this camera and trying to use it in a fashion not envisioned by Canon (well at least the marketing side of Canon).

But what Canon thought or didn't think originally when designing the 5D MKII is irrelevant, since both users and 3rd party software vendors are hard at work to "fix" some of the problems that people have noticed, with regard to editing the videos. And you are correct, that needs to be done on both Mac and PC platforms.
Not to mention the rather... uhhh, dubious advice of transcoding to XVid (or was it Divx)????? Why anyone would want to do that for EDITING is beyond me.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2010, 08:23 AM   #10
Sponsor: Westside AV
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA
Posts: 1,365
All these H.264 formats really should just be seen as acquisition and archive format. This is true for Sony EX and Canon movs. They are just wrappers for H.264 efficient codecs.

The best way to work is to always convert to a I-frame format for editing. This is easily done, on the Mac and I would assume on the PC as well.

These days it makes a huge difference how you deliver. The Color space is totally different for broadcast TV versus internet delivery, Macs are different from PC's. So I always end up adjusting color depending on how it is delivered.

I think Canon originally really just figured these cameras for web delivery.

It is very easy to set up a workflow/archiving system. Just figure out what works for you and then stick to it.

Just my nickel.
__________________
Olof Ekbergh ē olof@WestsideAV.com
Westside A V Studios ē http://www.WestsideAVstore.com/
Olof Ekbergh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2010, 09:36 AM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh View Post
All these H.264 formats really should just be seen as acquisition and archive format. This is true for Sony EX and Canon movs. They are just wrappers for H.264 efficient codecs.
Um, half right. The Sony EX does not shoot h.264. It shoots Mpeg2. And it does not wrap in a .MOV unless it's done in post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh View Post
The best way to work is to always convert to a I-frame format for editing. This is easily done, on the Mac and I would assume on the PC as well.
Yep, simple and free on the PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh View Post
These days it makes a huge difference how you deliver. The Color space is totally different for broadcast TV versus internet delivery, Macs are different from PC's. So I always end up adjusting color depending on how it is delivered.
Agreed. Not sure why people insist on making a mountain out of a molehill.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 11:54 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Neenah, WI
Posts: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
Um, half right. The Sony EX does not shoot h.264. It shoots Mpeg2. And it does not wrap in a .MOV unless it's done in post.
.
I think most people see that QT is the default player for the MPEG2 file, which is in an MPEG4 wrapper on the EX cameras (MXF on the Blue Laser disc systems), so it "looks" like a QT file.

That may be where the impression that the essence is MP4-based comes from...
__________________
TimK
Kolb Productions
Tim Kolb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 01:12 PM   #13
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
Any professional editing software, whether PC or Mac, works just fine.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 07:18 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 139
A lot has changed since January 2009.

It is reassuring to think that the frustrations of 18 months ago are the easy fixes of today.
__________________
SONY α77 :: Panasonic X900M :: Sony DSR-PD170P :: Miller DS5 :: Premiere Pro 2.0 :: Cineform NeoScene
Laurence Janus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 07:51 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Pryor View Post
Any professional editing software, whether PC or Mac, works just fine.
What does that mean i ask repectfully?
__________________
Nashville TN using Canon 5D MK3, Canon 550D, RODE SVM mic, 70-200 f2.8L II IS, 24-105 f4L IS, 50 and 85 f/1.8, Vegas Pro 11, Zoom H4n, Blackbird, Lilliput Monitor, Lightroom
Harry Simpson is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:37 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network