How much better really is a ME66 than GL2 Mic? at DVinfo.net

Scott Silverman · January 20th, 2003, 11:06 PM

Hi,
I have been seriously contemplating the purchase of a ME66. I decided that before I decide to buy, wait, or not to buy, I needed to seriously consider the improvement the $400 purchase (more including an XLR box) would make to my sound quality. I was wondering if anyone had their experiences, or even better, some test audio. If someone could record some stuff with the ME66 and post it along with the same stuff on the GL2 for comparison I would be very VERY greatful. There is no camera or audio shop around me that carries the ME66 otherwise I would run the test myself. Thank you very much, and if there is anything I can every do in return for you guys, just ask. I would be more than happy to help someone out in any way I can. Thanks!

Frank Granovski · January 20th, 2003, 11:14 PM

Like night and day. I've compared the difference between a GL1 with it's internal mic, and a GL1 with a Beachtek/Senn 66/K6 - BIG difference.

Ken Tanaka · January 20th, 2003, 11:29 PM

Scott,
Your reluctance to part with hard-earned greenbacks is understandable and laudable. This video stuff can quickly become a consumer cash sink-hole. And all of this gear depreciates faster than a loaf of bread. So spend wisely!

The difference between the two is not as much a matter of quality as it is of design. The Sennheiser ME-66 is a completely different type of microphone than the onboard GL2's. It's a single-channel super-cardioid directional mic with a relatively narrow field. That is, it rejects off-axis sound.

The GL2's mic is a stereo omnidirectional mic that picks up nearly everything in a spherical pattern around it.

Shotgun mics are a valuable tool to have, especially for dialog. But the better shotguns are really designed to be used on a boom by a separate sound recordist. You -can- mount some (like the ME-66) on your camera but you'll get mixed results. With a shotgun pointed straight out at a subject you may hear their speech quite well. But you'll also hear everything behind them. (That's why sound recordists always point the shotguns -down- towards their subjects.) Clarity will also be a function of proximity; the closer the mic the cleaner the sound. But that's not always practical for your camera's lens.

So, if I were looking for a shotgun mic that I knew I would be using only camera-mounted I'd be inclined to get the less-expensive Sennheiser MKE-300. It's a pretty good single-channel directional mic designed specifically for shoe-mounting. I have one and like it very much for solitary and semi-casual shooting.

You may be interested in looking at the LA Final Cut Pro Users Group's July 2001 review of several inexpensive shotgun mics.

Scott Silverman · January 20th, 2003, 11:46 PM

Thanks for your replies. Although camera mounted miking would probably be my main use, I would also use it on a boom and on a mic stand. I record live theater and music events, where I would love to place my mic on a stand near the sound source and run cable back to my camera. So I guess the next question would be is the ME66 that much better than a Audio-Technica AT835b or a Azden SGM-2X? Thanks so much for your help!

Ken Tanaka · January 20th, 2003, 11:51 PM

That I can't answer. The LAFCPUG article reviews them all. If the mic will be unattended for a live stage event, however, you might be better served with a cardioid mic (broader field), rather than a super-cardioid. If there's a sound system involved your best bet is to hook into the mixing panel.

Alex Ratson · January 21st, 2003, 08:02 PM

Id think if u were going to mount the Mic on a stand close to the sound source something like a shure SM-58, or Beta-58 would be more appropriate. They can take a lot more “sound pressure” then the ME-66.
I might be wrong so if I am please correct me.

Alex

Frank Granovski · January 21st, 2003, 08:27 PM

Hi, Alex! You could be right...from a fellow British Columbian. The ME66 is very directional, and he ME67 even more so.

Alex Ratson · January 21st, 2003, 10:04 PM

I find with my ME-66/K^ setup that with loud noises it sounds like crap compared to my SM-58’s and the BETA-58 is suppose to be even better at loud noises. With that said the ME-66 kick’s when it’s on a boom, and in ENG setups.

Alex

P.S. Nice to see that IM not the only BCer around hear

Don Palomaki · January 22nd, 2003, 06:01 AM

Would not recommend the MKE300 for music - it has a substantial fall off below 200 Hz.

The SM58 are desigend as vocal mics. They can work for music, espcially in loud venues, but do have gradual bass roll off for sources that are more than a couple feet from the mic. Theri output is about 20-25 dB less than the ME66 for the same sound level reching the mic - that is good for loud venues.

The ME66 can sound poorly with the GL1, especially in loud venues because it has a very high output, too high for MIC or even MIC ATT in very loud venues. An external lvel control would be essential.

The GL1 standard mic has a somewhat directional forward facing pickup pattern, kind of hemispherical. Not sure if it is full cardoid.

Joshua Wachs · January 22nd, 2003, 01:22 PM

My first "accessory" for my GL2 was the ME66. I use it all the time as I continue to learn about filmmaking, documentary work, etc.

If you're planning on using it outside, definitely get a REAL wind screen as the mic is so good/sensitive that a foam one alone is useless.

My next purchase will be a fuzzy cover for it for sure. I've been using it mostly on top of the GL2 but plan on getting a boom pole for it shortly as well.

Good luck!

Patrick Mollins · January 22nd, 2003, 03:18 PM

Hey there,

I don't have a GL2 or an ME66 but I recently read on dv.com that the SGM-2x isn't very good. I recently ran into a shoot out between an AT mic, the SGM-2x and the ME66 that rated the SGM fairly well. The reviews on dv.com message board contradict that. It's a pitty and a blessing. I almost bought an SGM-2X for want of saving some money. Now I'm going to wait and get he ME66. I have a 1CCD Optura Pi from Canon. I figure I'm not doing broadcast stuff so I can at least practice my craft until I can afford/justify the new camera. If I keep reading here though I may just break down and get it ;-)

Patrick

John Lee · January 22nd, 2003, 04:11 PM

Is there a big difference between the MKE 300 and the integrated mic on the GL2?

I've also been looking for a mic to use with the GL2 for low noise/dialogue type recording. I've been a little unhappy with the amount of background noise that the GL2's mic picks up. The ME66 is too far out of my price range, but would an MKE300 make a noticeable difference? Is it better than a DM50?

Frank Granovski · January 22nd, 2003, 04:19 PM

From what I know of the MKE300.... It's okay, not great but not bad. However, Leo's Photo had so many problems with these mics coming back as returns, broken, not working correctly, that they stopped selling them altogether a few years back.

Scott Silverman · January 22nd, 2003, 05:39 PM

So, as far as recording sound like a choral performances or live theater, would somthing like the ME62 or ME64 be recommended? That would be nice because then I only have to buy 1 powering module and can save a little $. The ME66 comes first though because it has a wide ranger of uses and is good for video stuff like boom poles and sound effects.

ME62: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser...ries_mke_03281

ME64: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser...ries_mke_03282

Don Palomaki · January 23rd, 2003, 06:04 AM

Go to the Shure web site and read some of their technical information, tutorials and white papers. They list suggested mics for different types of recording situatiosn.

The ME66 type mic is good for dialog, bom pole, etc. But fFor a choral group you probably need a cardoid i.e., with a wide front pattern and rejection of sounds to the rear. FOr a large group you may need more thatn one. Be sure to get the accompanyment which might require a second mic.

January 20th, 2003, 11:06 PM	#1
Scott Silverman Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cupertino, California, USA Posts: 301	How much better really is a ME66 than GL2 Mic? Hi, I have been seriously contemplating the purchase of a ME66. I decided that before I decide to buy, wait, or not to buy, I needed to seriously consider the improvement the $400 purchase (more including an XLR box) would make to my sound quality. I was wondering if anyone had their experiences, or even better, some test audio. If someone could record some stuff with the ME66 and post it along with the same stuff on the GL2 for comparison I would be very VERY greatful. There is no camera or audio shop around me that carries the ME66 otherwise I would run the test myself. Thank you very much, and if there is anything I can every do in return for you guys, just ask. I would be more than happy to help someone out in any way I can. Thanks! __________________ Scott Silverman Shining Star Digital Video Productions Bay Area, CA

January 20th, 2003, 11:29 PM	#3
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Scott, Your reluctance to part with hard-earned greenbacks is understandable and laudable. This video stuff can quickly become a consumer cash sink-hole. And all of this gear depreciates faster than a loaf of bread. So spend wisely! The difference between the two is not as much a matter of quality as it is of design. The Sennheiser ME-66 is a completely different type of microphone than the onboard GL2's. It's a single-channel super-cardioid directional mic with a relatively narrow field. That is, it rejects off-axis sound. The GL2's mic is a stereo omnidirectional mic that picks up nearly everything in a spherical pattern around it. Shotgun mics are a valuable tool to have, especially for dialog. But the better shotguns are really designed to be used on a boom by a separate sound recordist. You -can- mount some (like the ME-66) on your camera but you'll get mixed results. With a shotgun pointed straight out at a subject you may hear their speech quite well. But you'll also hear everything behind them. (That's why sound recordists always point the shotguns -down- towards their subjects.) Clarity will also be a function of proximity; the closer the mic the cleaner the sound. But that's not always practical for your camera's lens. So, if I were looking for a shotgun mic that I knew I would be using only camera-mounted I'd be inclined to get the less-expensive Sennheiser MKE-300. It's a pretty good single-channel directional mic designed specifically for shoe-mounting. I have one and like it very much for solitary and semi-casual shooting. You may be interested in looking at the LA Final Cut Pro Users Group's July 2001 review of several inexpensive shotgun mics. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 20th, 2003, 11:46 PM	#4
Scott Silverman Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cupertino, California, USA Posts: 301	Thanks for your replies. Although camera mounted miking would probably be my main use, I would also use it on a boom and on a mic stand. I record live theater and music events, where I would love to place my mic on a stand near the sound source and run cable back to my camera. So I guess the next question would be is the ME66 that much better than a Audio-Technica AT835b or a Azden SGM-2X? Thanks so much for your help! __________________ Scott Silverman Shining Star Digital Video Productions Bay Area, CA

January 20th, 2003, 11:51 PM	#5
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	That I can't answer. The LAFCPUG article reviews them all. If the mic will be unattended for a live stage event, however, you might be better served with a cardioid mic (broader field), rather than a super-cardioid. If there's a sound system involved your best bet is to hook into the mixing panel. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 22nd, 2003, 01:22 PM	#10
Joshua Wachs Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 95	My first "accessory" for my GL2 was the ME66. I use it all the time as I continue to learn about filmmaking, documentary work, etc. If you're planning on using it outside, definitely get a REAL wind screen as the mic is so good/sensitive that a foam one alone is useless. My next purchase will be a fuzzy cover for it for sure. I've been using it mostly on top of the GL2 but plan on getting a boom pole for it shortly as well. Good luck! __________________ http://busybrain.com

January 20th, 2003, 11:14 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Like night and day. I've compared the difference between a GL1 with it's internal mic, and a GL1 with a Beachtek/Senn 66/K6 - BIG difference.

January 21st, 2003, 08:02 PM	#6
Alex Ratson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Squamish, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 149	Id think if u were going to mount the Mic on a stand close to the sound source something like a shure SM-58, or Beta-58 would be more appropriate. They can take a lot more “sound pressure” then the ME-66. I might be wrong so if I am please correct me. Alex

January 21st, 2003, 08:27 PM	#7
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Hi, Alex! You could be right...from a fellow British Columbian. The ME66 is very directional, and he ME67 even more so.

January 21st, 2003, 10:04 PM	#8
Alex Ratson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Squamish, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 149	I find with my ME-66/K^ setup that with loud noises it sounds like crap compared to my SM-58’s and the BETA-58 is suppose to be even better at loud noises. With that said the ME-66 kick’s when it’s on a boom, and in ENG setups. Alex P.S. Nice to see that IM not the only BCer around hear

January 22nd, 2003, 06:01 AM	#9
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Would not recommend the MKE300 for music - it has a substantial fall off below 200 Hz. The SM58 are desigend as vocal mics. They can work for music, espcially in loud venues, but do have gradual bass roll off for sources that are more than a couple feet from the mic. Theri output is about 20-25 dB less than the ME66 for the same sound level reching the mic - that is good for loud venues. The ME66 can sound poorly with the GL1, especially in loud venues because it has a very high output, too high for MIC or even MIC ATT in very loud venues. An external lvel control would be essential. The GL1 standard mic has a somewhat directional forward facing pickup pattern, kind of hemispherical. Not sure if it is full cardoid.

January 22nd, 2003, 03:18 PM	#11
Patrick Mollins New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada Posts: 15	Hey there, I don't have a GL2 or an ME66 but I recently read on dv.com that the SGM-2x isn't very good. I recently ran into a shoot out between an AT mic, the SGM-2x and the ME66 that rated the SGM fairly well. The reviews on dv.com message board contradict that. It's a pitty and a blessing. I almost bought an SGM-2X for want of saving some money. Now I'm going to wait and get he ME66. I have a 1CCD Optura Pi from Canon. I figure I'm not doing broadcast stuff so I can at least practice my craft until I can afford/justify the new camera. If I keep reading here though I may just break down and get it ;-) Patrick

January 22nd, 2003, 04:11 PM	#12
John Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 152	Is there a big difference between the MKE 300 and the integrated mic on the GL2? I've also been looking for a mic to use with the GL2 for low noise/dialogue type recording. I've been a little unhappy with the amount of background noise that the GL2's mic picks up. The ME66 is too far out of my price range, but would an MKE300 make a noticeable difference? Is it better than a DM50?

January 22nd, 2003, 04:19 PM	#13
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	From what I know of the MKE300.... It's okay, not great but not bad. However, Leo's Photo had so many problems with these mics coming back as returns, broken, not working correctly, that they stopped selling them altogether a few years back.

January 22nd, 2003, 05:39 PM	#14
Scott Silverman Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cupertino, California, USA Posts: 301	So, as far as recording sound like a choral performances or live theater, would somthing like the ME62 or ME64 be recommended? That would be nice because then I only have to buy 1 powering module and can save a little $. The ME66 comes first though because it has a wide ranger of uses and is good for video stuff like boom poles and sound effects. ME62: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser...ries_mke_03281 ME64: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser...ries_mke_03282 __________________ Scott Silverman Shining Star Digital Video Productions Bay Area, CA

January 23rd, 2003, 06:04 AM	#15
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Go to the Shure web site and read some of their technical information, tutorials and white papers. They list suggested mics for different types of recording situatiosn. The ME66 type mic is good for dialog, bom pole, etc. But fFor a choral group you probably need a cardoid i.e., with a wide front pattern and rejection of sounds to the rear. FOr a large group you may need more thatn one. Be sure to get the accompanyment which might require a second mic.