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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old June 2nd, 2008, 12:25 PM   #1
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canon 24p pulldown removal?

So is cinform still the only viable option if using vegas 8? is there no other simple method of removing the pulldown out or available yet?

This is on the hg10, hf10, and hv20 cameras mainly, but since the hf10 is a full 1920 it would mean the 600$ neoHD is the option to get, thats very high for a camera that is not that much more. I am sort of amazed no one else has developed a less expensive simple way to do this yet? Tell me I am missing one?
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 05:12 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Stephen Eastwood View Post
So is cinform still the only viable option if using vegas 8? is there no other simple method of removing the pulldown out or available yet?

This is on the hg10, hf10, and hv20 cameras mainly, but since the hf10 is a full 1920 it would mean the 600$ neoHD is the option to get, thats very high for a camera that is not that much more. I am sort of amazed no one else has developed a less expensive simple way to do this yet? Tell me I am missing one?
Try DVFILM as it's about $150.
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Old June 3rd, 2008, 12:00 PM   #3
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Try DVFILM as it's about $150.

Well, I sent them an email in the hopes that it would be a viable option, but my response was

"Hello

Sorry but none of our products support AVCHD at this time

Best Regards,
Marcus van Bavel"


so back to the drawing board. there programs look interesting, i had used a film conversion from them a year ago, I don't remember them having all these software options, but then I did not have any of the small hd cams, so I may not have looked backed then.

So any other possible options?
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Old June 3rd, 2008, 05:20 PM   #4
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Stephen, I think you can take that 1920x1080 rez for any of these AVCHD consumer cams and throw it right out the window. Let's compare a 1920x1080 grab from the HF10/100 to a 1440x1080 HDV grab from a Z7U, LOL!

You see my point? I'd still go with the Neo HDV product for these "1920x1080" consumer cam's and think no different about it. Contact Cineform and see what they say about it...
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Old June 3rd, 2008, 05:56 PM   #5
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Stephen, I think you can take that 1920x1080 rez for any of these AVCHD consumer cams and throw it right out the window. Let's compare a 1920x1080 grab from the HF10/100 to a 1440x1080 HDV grab from a Z7U, LOL!

You see my point? I'd still go with the Neo HDV product for these "1920x1080" consumer cam's and think no different about it. Contact Cineform and see what they say about it...
they said that its cheaper, it will work, and it will obviously lose any gain from the increase that was gained in shooting.

And since I have much larger cameras in the form of an ex1, xha1, xlh1 and on order for a red I would rather not give away anything when there is no need, but I have had multiple issues on several systems running cinform before and last time it worked on half but not the other half of the systems so its hit or miss with me so far. So in the end, I am looking for any alternative I may have available that does not lose too much and gets me back the real 24 cadence.

Truthfully trying to compare it makes little sense to me, I mean most every commercial I have done so far is on a genesis and so should I say that I might as well compare my ex1 to that so why not just down convert to sd, its all bad in comparison?
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Old June 4th, 2008, 12:53 AM   #6
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Well, I sent them an email in the hopes that it would be a viable option, but my response was

"Hello

Sorry but none of our products support AVCHD at this time

Best Regards,
Marcus van Bavel"
Sorry -- I didn't expect DVFILM to support AVCHD directly. I assumed you would convert AVCHD to something using whatever software came with the Canon camera.

I don't think there is a PC-based plug-in codec for AVCHD. Without such a codec, existing software is out-of-luck.

What about EDIUS 4.6?
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Old June 4th, 2008, 01:23 PM   #7
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This is on the hg10, hf10, and hv20 cameras mainly...
Hmmm, did not know you were referencing higher quality pro/prosumer cam's with this question. My statement was intended to reflect an opinion on using Cineform's NEO HDV specifically with the HF10.

Are you saying that in your experience the resolution of video created with the HF10 exceeds the resolution of video produced by the A1?
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Old June 4th, 2008, 11:26 PM   #8
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Are you saying that in your experience the resolution of video created with the HF10 exceeds the resolution of video produced by the A1?
no, but it puts out a full 1920x1080 in avchd instead of the hdv 1440x1080 so to take what it has at the 1920 and cut it down to start to 1440 makes no sense, why would you take any product and downsample the quality only in an effort to get a better quality file through the conversion?
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Old June 4th, 2008, 11:33 PM   #9
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so in order to make my life sort of simpler I went for cineform neohd and picked up two dual quad cores to simply convert to cineform 10bit 1920x1080 and then batch to a full uncompressed hd on the second so my main machines do not have the issues associated with the cineform between stations, not the ideal, but overall will work out so everyone is happy and projects can move all over, only thing is the extra steps of converting then reconverting to such a huge file, but until they figure out the issues associated with cineform on certain stations it will do. Its not ever used for that much footage, but a lot of aerial work so its better to have the best we can get even at the added expense of extra time and space. Harddrives are cheap :/
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Old June 5th, 2008, 01:12 AM   #10
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no, but it puts out a full 1920x1080 in avchd instead of the hdv 1440x1080 so to take what it has at the 1920 and cut it down to start to 1440 makes no sense, why would you take any product and downsample the quality only in an effort to get a better quality file through the conversion?
The actual detail lost is likely to be small -- perhaps to small to see. So a simpler workflow may be worth it.
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Old June 5th, 2008, 02:05 PM   #11
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The actual detail lost is likely to be small -- perhaps to small to see. So a simpler workflow may be worth it.
the only difference in workflow is the version of cineform to use, either save the money on neohdv and lose the full 1920 and 10 vs 8 bit, not any gain here but could be if their is any heavy manipulating especially given this is often matched to better cameras in post.

So for the money it was a no brainer, I went for the neohd, I was hoping to avoid cineform altogether as its use still is problematic and demands a dual conversion, one to get the pulldown right and then to a usable format and since the idea of generation loss pops up it means going to cineform then to uncompressed HD at 400 gigs per hour :( Only good thing is since they are straight conversions they happen relatively quickly.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:37 AM   #12
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I don't think there is a PC-based plug-in codec for AVCHD. Without such a codec, existing software is out-of-luck.

What about EDIUS 4.6?
Edius can import AVCHD but not export it. It's anticipated that Edius 5.0 will have this ability. I love the program and have used it for years, so for me it's worth waiting to have the ability to use the great workflow that Edius has. The other programs just seem so clunky by comparison.
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