Canon introduces XF105 and XF100 - Page 15 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 11th, 2011, 05:16 AM   #211
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
I agree, and also agree we need to see a lot more of it in action before we'll know.

Certainly his comment towards the end that the XF100/105 will not compete against the JVC in low light (and I assume he means the JVC GY-HM100 they typically use for their videos, mentioned earlier in the film) is pretty worrying. I don't own a JVC GY-HM100 with it's three 1/4 inch chips but from what I've read it's no champion in low light.

We really need more sample footage to know but I'm, personally, getting less and less interested in the XF100 at it's launch price point - seems that just maybe I'd be paying top end price for a feature set that is partly crippled by that single 1/3 inch sensor design choice (but that's my current personal opinion based on very little facts so far - and may change - just so everyone is clear).

Maybe the Canon XA10 hits the sweet spot better where the (same) sensor, AVCHD codec, good image control (but not as customizable), similar feature set, XLR etc. and most importantly PRICE are much "more balanced", more "in tune with each other", performance wise?

All very interesting stuff!
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2011, 05:34 AM   #212
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson View Post
I agree, and also agree we need to see a lot more of it in action before we'll know.

Certainly his comment towards the end that the XF100/105 will not compete against the JVC in low light (and I assume he means the JVC GY-HM100 they typically use for their videos, mentioned earlier in the film) is pretty worrying. I don't own a JVC GY-HM100 with it's three 1/4 inch chips but from what I've read it's no champion in low light.

We really need more sample footage to know but I'm, personally, getting less and less interested in the XF100 at it's launch price point - seems that just maybe I'd be paying top end price for a feature set that is partly crippled by that single 1/3 inch sensor design choice (but that's my current personal opinion based on very little facts so far - and may change - just so everyone is clear).

Maybe the Canon XA10 hits the sweet spot better where the (same) sensor, AVCHD codec, good image control (but not as customizable), similar feature set, XLR etc. and most importantly PRICE are much "more balanced", more "in tune with each other", performance wise?

All very interesting stuff!
yes but I wouldn't buy the XA10 even only for AVCHD.....

isn't there ANY compact professional camcorder that fits the bill, I wonder? good sensor, good codec and tapeless for God sake
Federico Perale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2011, 06:27 AM   #213
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
Well, especially if you're Apple FCP workflow (I don't know if you are, but note there is a MP4 editing route too) the aforementioned JVC GY-HM100 is currently £2,158.80 incl. VAT at Creative Video Products and £2,034.00 incl. VAT at ProAV. It ticks a lot of those boxes, at least partly...Maybe I should look at it again too.
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2011, 09:24 AM   #214
New Boot
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 16
XF100/105 lowlight and TV resolution

Speaking about low light performance, the comparison page on slachcam.com shows the XF100 as better in handling lowlights condition than GY-HM100 and many other camcorders. Wonder if itís correct.
Camcorder test charts comparison


Maybe this is a stupid question: What does it mean when Canon describes the XF100/105 as having a Horizontal Resolution of 900 TV lines or more (1920x1080)? Thanks
Canon Professional Network - Canon XF105 and XF100
__________________
Flemming Bo Hansen
www.fbh.dk
Flemming Bo Hansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2011, 09:44 AM   #215
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
Yes indeed. I think those much studied Slashcam tests were done in interlace mode (I'm only interested in progressive performance, personally). Whilst the low light performance of the XF100 trounces the JVC in the 12 Lux test comparison, if you look at the 1200 Lux image comparison you'll also see a LOT more colour in the JVC GY-HM100 image. I guess that's 3 chips for you but I'm wary of making too many comparisons as it depends so much on how the cameras were set up.

900 lines of resolution is pretty good. My EX3 manages about 1000, from memory. I'm sure someone will give you a technical definition (as I never use charts). My first Digital 8 Sony managed about 450-500 so things have come a long way!
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2011, 10:29 AM   #216
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,569
Andy, the HM100 doesn't have much of a wide angle, you will need a converter for it. My Panny HMC41 is virtually the same, at around 40mm wide angle or so.

The JVC has no facility for a Lanc either, if that is a requirement - but is a very nice, affordable camera if none of that is a problem. Lack of Lanc remote combined with a higher price last year led to me choosing the Panasonic instead; if I was to do the same now, with reduced prices, it would be a tough call.

(At least the JVC doesn't look like it was designed in 1978!)
Mike Beckett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 08:22 AM   #217
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
XF305 & XF105 Footage

Here is some XF305 and XF105 comparative sample footage on YouTube. Starts off with static type shots, some movement in shots then some pans at the end. I don't read Japanese (I assume that's what it is) so know little more than the obvious from the English on screen captions!

YouTube - Canon XF305&105

PS Mike, Yep, know what you mean about that HMC41 1970's design look!
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #218
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Decatur, AL
Posts: 858
Wow those are some interesting videos of the 105 and 305.

As I expected, the 3-chip 305 has richer colors... and some nice bokeh too.

All things considered, about 1/3 the cost, the XF105 does a great job though.
__________________
Kyle
KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com
Kyle Root is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 02:19 PM   #219
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Beverly, MA
Posts: 512
Fantastic video comparison. Thank you for posting. Confirms the richness of the 300/5 but also confirms that the 100/5 is a worthy companion.
__________________
Event Videography, New England
www.timothybakland.com
Tim Bakland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2011, 01:40 PM   #220
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London UK
Posts: 430
Great test. The bigger camera wins out in the early stages, but the 105 looks at least as good later on. Thanks for the link.
Dom Stevenson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2011, 01:46 PM   #221
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Decatur, AL
Posts: 858
I pretty sure I'm gonna get an XF100.

I was looking at B&H and it is still "pre-order".

Has anyone here bought and received one from B&H?
__________________
Kyle
KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com
Kyle Root is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #222
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Upper Pittsgrove, NJ
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Hull View Post
Blake,
According to Canon, the 4:2:2 color encoding makes these camcorders good for green screen work. However, some cameramen have speculated that the single sensor of only 1/3" size might make it difficult for the camcorder to differentiate colors well enough to take advantage of the 4:2:2 color encoding. We won't know for sure until some green screen tests are done and published. The product is expected to arrive on store shelves sometime in January. So maybe by the end of January we will have our answer!
Ken
I do lots of green screen work. It's the color errors you have to worry about. You get plenty of color on a modern single chipper.. high resolutions, too, given most CMOS sensors deliver 14-bits/sensor of resolution.
What screws with green screen are color errors. Here's a Bayer patten example;

R G R G R G
G B G B G B
R G R G R G
G B G B G B

So take any blue pixel... you can estimate the green value via a linear interpolation horizontally and vertically, and the red along the two diagonals. In a continuous tone image, the interpolated value will be almost exactly what you would have seen with a 3-chipper. But if there's a discontinuity in the color, you have no good idea what the color ought to be for that pixel. A simple linear interpolation won't just guess wrong, it can make up new colors not even seen in the image.

Now, sure, Canon's had a ton of experience with DSLRs doing single chip video, since the last full raster single chip camera went out the door (most of Canon's, Sony's, and JVC's high end consumer cameras do like the DSLR and use higher pixel counts, to avoid interpolation). Could be they have a higher level of image processing that can follow lines and avoid such errors. I guess we'll see.
__________________
--Dave
Dave Haynie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2011, 01:28 PM   #223
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Burbank, CA 91502
Posts: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Root View Post
I pretty sure I'm gonna get an XF100.

I was looking at B&H and it is still "pre-order".

Has anyone here bought and received one from B&H?
As of my last update from Canon earlier in the week, around Feb 15th is when they should hit...both here and Europe.


Jim Martin
FilmTools.com
Jim Martin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2011, 03:22 PM   #224
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 30
I ordered my via the presale on BH. I am really looking forward to using this as a B cameras (sometimes A). Will be a great fit with the Merlin. I saw some comparisons of this camera vs the EX3 and 1 and it appears that is has more detail. We will see.
Brett Munoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 02:02 AM   #225
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Munoz View Post
I saw some comparisons of this camera vs the EX3 and 1 and it appears that is has more detail.
Not unless it aliases like crazy. There's no way a single 1920 x1080 bayer sensor will have more resolution than 3x 1920x1080 sensors. With any camcorder you have to have the optical low pass filter below the G pixel count to prevent moire and aliasing. A 3 chip camera has 1920x1080 green while 1920 x 1080 bayer has only has half that. Not only that if you don't want colour aliases the OLPF should be below the R or B count which is lowers still. Typically manufacturers ignore the R and B aliasing as the resolution hit would be to much to bear, which is why bayer cameras exhibit those read and blue sparkles around coloured edges.

The images I have seen from the 105 have looked very good, but they do have that single chip look with more aliasing than you get from a 3 chip design.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:16 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network