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Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


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Old October 7th, 2010, 04:46 AM   #91
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There are some good deals to be had on the XH-A1s at the moment, at least in the UK. A couple of internet retailers have it for about 2200, and even one of the more discount-resistant video specialists has it for below 3k, for the first time since the S model appeared. This may just be a short-term reaction to a general slow-down in sales, or it may be a sign that the announcement of the XF-1xx has knocked a dent in Canon's HDV market.

I'm sure that for the first few months, the new camera will carry a bit of a premium while the initial burst of demand is mopped up. However, once things settle down, then I'd expect the street price of the XF-100 to be about the same as the current street-price of the XH-A1, on the basis that the longer lens and 3 x CCD chips in the XH-A1 would about counter-balance the solid state recording, choice of codec and light weight of the XF-100. The street price of the small JVC and Panansonic camcorders, and whatever Sony come up with in the mean time, will also have an effect.

This raises some interesting questions for me. HDV, and 25 Mbps MPEG2, happens to suit me very well (archiving, work-flow, compatibility with friends, backwards compatibility with miniDV...) and I have a fairly large investment in the format (by hobbyist standards, anyway). I must at least get a spare HDV cam. while they're generally available, so that I can continue to play my archive of tapes (a couple of hundred ATM and still growing), but an HV40, or similar, will do that job. Should I grab an XH-A1s while they're discounted, or hold out in the hope that the XF-100 is a match for quality? At what point do I stop shooting HDV and move to solid state?

Of course, until we see what the XF-100's images look like, this is all rather academic...
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Old October 8th, 2010, 02:40 AM   #92
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I just sold the last of my XH-A1 cameras for about two thirds of what I paid for it. I was very pleased to get that price as I am expecting the prices to plummet in the second hand market soon not particularly because of the introduction of the XF100 but because of the general move away from tape.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 09:52 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Mark Fry View Post
...Should I grab an XH-A1s while they're discounted, or hold out in the hope that the XF-100 is a match for quality? At what point do I stop shooting HDV and move to solid state?...
Only you can decide the value to you of shooting full raster 1080 and the convenience of shooting to solid state media. I believe the discounts will grow with time and that there is plenty of time to decide after the XF-100/105 come out and we all know what the image quality is like.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 05:00 PM   #94
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...I thought the new XF-100 and XF-105 were pretty interesting until I realized that they are SINGLE CHIP cameras, which makes me question both the color accuracy and low-light sensitivity of these cameras.

Replacing a 3 CHIP camera like the XH-A1s with a 1 CHIP camera does not sound like a good idea to me.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 05:35 PM   #95
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I think you need to look at where these cameras are being positioned by Canon. For Police & Military, there is night vision w/ IR illuminator, small size & weight, and high codec for use in blowing up the footage or frame grabs. As a "C" camera for both reality & scripted shows, there again is night vision w/IR and a choice of green or white look, crash cam, dash cam, throw-it-over-a-cliff cam, etc on a high codec that doesn't have to be up/cross converted to match the "A" camera.

As for a stand alone, I don't think anyone is really going to know much until the production models show up and real tests can be made. As I've said before, every year the chips get better in resolution and color seperation so we'll have to wait and see on where the 100/105s "stand".

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Old October 13th, 2010, 05:46 PM   #96
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Single chip RGB pretty much equals the color accuracy of three chip.

Keep in mind that D-SLRs which are all the rage these days are single chip RGB as well.

You really can't pass judgement on the color accuracy XF 105 / 100 without actually seeing it.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 10:18 AM   #97
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Single chip RGB pretty much equals the color accuracy of three chip.
Are there any other small sensor single chip prosumer video cameras on the market?

The only single chip cameras that I can think of are:

- Consumer grade video cameras

- Large sensor DSLR still cameras that also shoot video

- The new large sensor AF100 camera from Panasonic

...From what I've read the XF100 / XF105 are going to be priced directly against other 3-chip prosumer cameras like the Panasonic HMC-150 or the Sony NX5U, so these new cameras will have to deliver if Canon wants to be competitive.
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Old October 15th, 2010, 01:58 AM   #98
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Sony A1U?

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Originally Posted by Guy McLoughlin View Post
Are there any other small sensor single chip prosumer video cameras on the market?
The Sony HVR-A1U comes to mind. Sure, it's getting a bit long in tooth, but it got very good reviews.

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Old October 15th, 2010, 10:00 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy McLoughlin View Post
Are there any other small sensor single chip prosumer video cameras on the market?

The only single chip cameras that I can think of are:

- Consumer grade video cameras

- Large sensor DSLR still cameras that also shoot video

- The new large sensor AF100 camera from Panasonic

...From what I've read the XF100 / XF105 are going to be priced directly against other 3-chip prosumer cameras like the Panasonic HMC-150 or the Sony NX5U, so these new cameras will have to deliver if Canon wants to be competitive.
Thats kind of the whole point here in a way. For years we were all conditioned to believe 3 chip was better then 1 chip. Of course that was very true at one point in history. Today that isn't so much true anymore. The best color accurate imagers in the world are currently 1 chip so clearly color is no longer an issue. Basically the only thing a 1 chip design looses is a tiny bit of detail. This is because every other color pixel has to be interpolated. The colors are pretty much exactly what they should be but your details will be a bit softer. This is why I think these cameras may be a tiny bit softer then their 3 chip companions but everything else should be equal.
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Old October 15th, 2010, 11:58 AM   #100
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For years we were all conditioned to believe 3 chip was better then 1 chip.
Well, they still are and always will be for at least one area: low light performance. (They are also better in processing simplicity, but Moore's Law is quickly making that a non-issue.)

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The best color accurate imagers in the world are currently 1 chip so clearly color is no longer an issue.
I heartily agree. 3-chip color accuracy is very, very poor compared to CFA cameras because you can't build it with sufficiently overlapping spectral response. In our eyes, green and red overlap in certain ways, and you can easily emulate that with CFA (1-chip) cameras. In 3-chip it's impossible, so colors that look the same to the eye will look different to the 3-chip (metamerism failure).

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Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
Basically the only thing a 1 chip design looses is a tiny bit of detail. This is because every other color pixel has to be interpolated.
I agree that most 1-chip designs tend to have slightly less detail than 3-chip, but I disagree about the reason. The anti-alias filter reduces aliasing artifacts and contast. On a 1-chip camera, using a weak AA filter is disastrous: it causes the dreaded chroma aliasing artifacts. So most 1-chip cameras use a really good AA filter as they should. But on 3-chip cameras, you only get luma aliasing artifacts, no chroma. To some people, luma is no big deal, so they live with the artifacts rather than sacrifice the contrast.

However, if both cameras are filtered the same amount, then they will have the same luminance contrast and detail. This despite the Bayer interpolation that 1-chip cameras use. 3-chip definitely has far more color resolution, though. If you are shooting something with fine color contrast (a very rare subject -- only test patterns tend to have this kind of detail), then 3-chip would have more resolution. But that would only benefit you if you recorded 4:4:4. Most compression systems immediately throw out the color resolution with 4:2:2 (or worse) precisely because there is so little that ever benefits from full color resolution. 1-chip cameras just take advantage of this fact on the sensor itself instead of at the time of compression.
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Old October 26th, 2010, 04:52 PM   #101
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Finally got to have a play with this camcorder today at the Canon Expo in Islington, London.

Superb build quality. The last time i had something like this in my hands was the PDX10, but this thing feels a lot more solid, with most of the pro features from its big brothers in the XF range. The LCD is amazing for a camera of this price point, and given its size, the manual controls are excellent. And then of course there's the BBC approved codec.

Ideally I'd like to hang on to my 5D mkii, but should we have to part company later this year to facilitate buying this camera in January i'll be a happy man. It's been a while since a camera leapt out at me as such an obvious choice for my next purchase, but short of a surprise announcement by the competition, the XF100 will be my next camera.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 09:01 AM   #102
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...for a camera of this price point...
Did I miss a recent press release, or did they mention at the Canon Expo what the suggested retail will be? I've not seen a suggested retail on these cameras yet; only speculation so far.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 09:21 AM   #103
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Any idea on pricing yet?
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Old October 27th, 2010, 09:53 AM   #104
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No firm pricing info yet, because these cameras are not
due to appear until Q1 of next year, and there's no way
to know right now what the yen will be doing at that time.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 10:38 AM   #105
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I handled these at the Canon Pro Photo event in Islington, London today. Jan/Feb availability was mentioned. Superb build quality and design. Canon are onto a winner with this small form factor.... and I'm sure they know it.... so I'd expect the pricing to start a little higher than we might otherwise like it to be and then gradually fall over a few months (as is typical). These little cams were not on my agenda until today but now I'm going to be studying all the online reviews and clips as these come in!
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