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Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


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Old November 19th, 2011, 02:56 PM   #1
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Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Hello,

I am getting used to the XF300 and am very happy with the image. But I noticed this from a shot today and wanted to see if this had ever been solved or addressed.

The image has been adjusted in Photoshop to try and get the gamma correct as this is a frame from Edius and the YUV to RGB conversion always kills the image.

The lines on the track are showing horrible aliasing. This looks like a poor downconvert. I did not check this in 1080 as I do not film much at lower framerates but it makes me wonder if the 720p mode is hampered by a less than optimal hardware downconvert from 1080p?

Anyway, thanks for your input and I will contact Canon on Monday.
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Old November 20th, 2011, 10:07 AM   #2
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Yes, XF300 has a great mode 1080/50i, 720/50p mode is very bad.

http://thebrownings.name/WHP034/pdf/..._XF300-305.pdf
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 04:30 PM   #3
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Hi Tim,
So is there any update from Canon? I use 720 50p almost all the time to take advantage of the great slo-mos that can be achieved in post.

Now with this aliasing issue I may have to go back to 1080 25p
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 07:56 PM   #4
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

I have been in contact with Canon and they are checking into it. They had me play the clip straight from the camera to my production monitor just to rule out any NLE issues.

I will keep you updated on all of the gory details!
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Old December 4th, 2011, 08:47 AM   #5
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

A little update: I sent the original footage to Canon last week and have not heard back from them yet. I will follow up next week.
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Old December 13th, 2011, 02:53 PM   #6
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Still have not been contacted by a Canon tech to talk about my footage...
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Old December 29th, 2011, 12:50 PM   #7
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Update:

I called Canon again and finally got a higher level tech to look at my footage. They see the problem and are sending to engineering.

Please see my other post regarding reporting aliasing to Canon as they told me this issue is NOT on their radar.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 01:13 AM   #8
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
....this issue is NOT on their radar.
And what is supposed to be our interpretation of that euphemism? That they need a more powerful RADAR scanner or that this is an issue of less than identifiable importance?

I'm going to the London show at Earls Court in February and more than willing to have them review their "concerns".

Luving this camera!

Grazie
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Old December 30th, 2011, 11:44 AM   #9
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Hello Graham,

Please talk to as many folks as you can. In speaking with the level II tech yesterday I got the impression they had never heard of 720p aliasing issues. He hinted that no reports from the call volume meant a low chance of anything being done about it.

I just does not make sense to me if the chipset is progressive how this could be introduced when downsampling to 720p. Maybe the chipset is not progressive or maybe the aliasing happens in 1080p as well. I only shot in 720p60 that day.

I would be happy to test more but to be honest, I only want to put the effort out there if Canon is willing to work to fix the problem. No point in going to great lengths only to get a "sorry" at the end of the road.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 12:29 PM   #10
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
No point in going to great lengths only to get a "sorry" at the end of the road.
And now it's below your RADAR. Now, don't you feel better?


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Old December 30th, 2011, 12:56 PM   #11
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Graham,

I don't quite understand your point. Please clarify.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 01:40 PM   #12
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Oh, simple really.

Your resignation to what might be a phyric victory might not be worth the effort you might expend, and that Canon would also not pursue this further either. As you say, you were told it wasn't on their RADAR and as a result, my understanding, it might not now be on yours either. And my point was that to stop now would be a better use of your efforts, rather than pursuing what could be a fruitless mission.

Cheers

Grazie
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Old December 30th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #13
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

I agree, all of the testing on a user end can not make the company take any action. I want to hope that the mission as it is will not be fruitless. I told the Canon employee that in my opinion, this situation turns into an issue of integrity for the company. They made the camera and labeled it professional. It has a large flaw, at least my camera in its present state. I asked them for a dialogue and time will tell if they are going to participate.

As far as being on my RADAR, it will remain as I mainly shoot in 720p60.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 02:44 AM   #14
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

One thing that helps a lot is increasing the noise reduction. This happens before scaling and if you take it to 10 the 720p will be pretty clean.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #15
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Re: Aliasing in 720p - XF300

Pyrrhic Victory. You don't hear that one every day on this forum!
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