Performance in low to no light: samples at DVinfo.net

Chuck Fadely · November 3rd, 2006, 09:57 AM

This XHA1 camera is designed for the ENG market, I think. Newspapers will buy these by the hundreds for web video because they're a thousand bucks cheaper than the Z1U. Churches will buy the G1's by the hundreds because they're a tenth of the price of a broadcast camera. Same for cable stations. Networks will use them in place of their PD170's. And wedding photogs need high-def and low light.

So low-light performance is really important. I've been comparing the Sony Z1U to the Canon XHA1 in low to no-light conditions.

First, to you wedding guys, this still isn't a PD170 or a 2100. Sorry.

However, it does give you about a stop more light at 12db than the Z1U at 18db, I think. However, both cameras are so customizable it's hard to say yet. You can set the canon to 18db and 36db but I haven't tried it yet.

Here's a frame grab from the Canon at 12db of gain, 1/60th 2.8, with black stretch on and nr1 and nr2 both set to medium.

I think it's pretty amazing -- very low noise.

Chuck

(frame grab from fcp, de-interlaced in photoshop and resized for aspect ratio but otherwise untouched)

Tom Roper · November 3rd, 2006, 10:06 AM

That does look nice. To emphasize the noise, would be interesting to see a spot(s) of light somewhere, an incandescent light, candle, street light etc. Inbetween the areas of contrast, to light up the grain, make what's hidden in the dark visible.

Chris Hurd · November 3rd, 2006, 11:22 AM

Split out from Initial User's review of the Canon XH-A1. Needed to stand as its own topic.

Chuck Fadely · November 3rd, 2006, 07:55 PM

Here's a frame grab from the XHA1 at 18db gain, black stretch and noise reduction on. Note that you have to go into the menus to get 18db; max gain is normally 12db.

To the naked eye, trees and grass are featureless black, sky is completely dark.

(I also tried it at 36db gain. It's very noisy but would be useable for news. It's way better than the Sony Z1U "hypergain" setting, but still really nasty, with muted colors.)

I'm on a mac, so the gamma might be off for some of you. Seen on component out to an HD monitor from the camera, it's bright and open.

Khoi Pham · November 3rd, 2006, 09:35 PM

Hi Chuck, thanks for taking the time to post these picts, anyway you could post side by side comparison with the Z1? either with the same settings on both camera on the same shot or adjust each camera to the same brightness and let us know what settings for each camera.
Thanks.

Marcus Marchesseault · November 3rd, 2006, 10:40 PM

Can it shoot at 30P with 1/30th shutter without resolution loss? I can deal with 1/30th shutter more easily than lots of gain or low resolution.

After seeing a review of the V1 and it's possibly poor low-light capabilities, I am again thinking about Canon.

Rafael Lopes · November 4th, 2006, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Fadely

Here's a frame grab from the XHA1 at 18db gain, black stretch and noise reduction on. Note that you have to go into the menus to get 18db; max gain is normally 12db.

To the naked eye, trees and grass are featureless black, sky is completely dark.

(I also tried it at 36db gain. It's very noisy but would be useable for news. It's way better than the Sony Z1U "hypergain" setting, but still really nasty, with muted colors.)

I'm on a mac, so the gamma might be off for some of you. Seen on component out to an HD monitor from the camera, it's bright and open.

You can see grain but it looks more like film grain than video noise.

Chuck Fadely · November 4th, 2006, 06:40 AM

There are frame grabs of XHA1 vs Z1U I did here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=78773&page=2

Those were with the Canon straight out of the box at 12db gain vs Sony Z1U at 18db. Both wide open at 1/15th.

chuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khoi Pham

Hi Chuck, thanks for taking the time to post these picts, anyway you could post side by side comparison with the Z1? either with the same settings on both camera on the same shot or adjust each camera to the same brightness and let us know what settings for each camera.
Thanks.

Khoi Pham · November 4th, 2006, 09:20 AM

Ok thanks, don't know how I missed that.
Take care.

November 3rd, 2006, 09:57 AM	#1
Chuck Fadely Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: United States Posts: 306	Low to no light This XHA1 camera is designed for the ENG market, I think. Newspapers will buy these by the hundreds for web video because they're a thousand bucks cheaper than the Z1U. Churches will buy the G1's by the hundreds because they're a tenth of the price of a broadcast camera. Same for cable stations. Networks will use them in place of their PD170's. And wedding photogs need high-def and low light. So low-light performance is really important. I've been comparing the Sony Z1U to the Canon XHA1 in low to no-light conditions. First, to you wedding guys, this still isn't a PD170 or a 2100. Sorry. However, it does give you about a stop more light at 12db than the Z1U at 18db, I think. However, both cameras are so customizable it's hard to say yet. You can set the canon to 18db and 36db but I haven't tried it yet. Here's a frame grab from the Canon at 12db of gain, 1/60th 2.8, with black stretch on and nr1 and nr2 both set to medium. I think it's pretty amazing -- very low noise. Chuck (frame grab from fcp, de-interlaced in photoshop and resized for aspect ratio but otherwise untouched) Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Chuck Fadely; November 3rd, 2006 at 07:56 PM.

November 3rd, 2006, 11:22 AM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Split out from Initial User's review of the Canon XH-A1. Needed to stand as its own topic. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 3rd, 2006, 07:55 PM	#4
Chuck Fadely Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: United States Posts: 306	Here's a frame grab from the XHA1 at 18db gain, black stretch and noise reduction on. Note that you have to go into the menus to get 18db; max gain is normally 12db. To the naked eye, trees and grass are featureless black, sky is completely dark. (I also tried it at 36db gain. It's very noisy but would be useable for news. It's way better than the Sony Z1U "hypergain" setting, but still really nasty, with muted colors.) I'm on a mac, so the gamma might be off for some of you. Seen on component out to an HD monitor from the camera, it's bright and open. Attached Thumbnails

November 3rd, 2006, 09:35 PM	#5
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	Hi Chuck, thanks for taking the time to post these picts, anyway you could post side by side comparison with the Z1? either with the same settings on both camera on the same shot or adjust each camera to the same brightness and let us know what settings for each camera. Thanks. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

November 4th, 2006, 09:20 AM	#9
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	Ok thanks, don't know how I missed that. Take care. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

November 3rd, 2006, 10:06 AM	#2
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	That does look nice. To emphasize the noise, would be interesting to see a spot(s) of light somewhere, an incandescent light, candle, street light etc. Inbetween the areas of contrast, to light up the grain, make what's hidden in the dark visible.

November 3rd, 2006, 10:40 PM	#6
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Can it shoot at 30P with 1/30th shutter without resolution loss? I can deal with 1/30th shutter more easily than lots of gain or low resolution. After seeing a review of the V1 and it's possibly poor low-light capabilities, I am again thinking about Canon.