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Canon XL1S / XL1 Watchdog
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Old November 13th, 2001, 02:15 AM   #1
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Gain difference between XL1 and XL1S

Anyone here had the old XL1 and now has the new XL1S?

Are you seeing what I am seeing? The new XL1S Looks like bad when it goes in +12db, Compared to the old XL1. What the did Canon do to the chips in this XL1S. Now I know its not the camera I have because it’s the seconded one sent to me.

Let me explain, the new XL1S when in the +12db the video noise looks like grap compared to the old XL1 and the GL1. I have been at this for 5 hours making test over and over and the GL1's video looks a hell a lot better in +12db than the XL1S. Canon really screwed us over with this dam XL1s. My weddings look like junk in the reception where the old xl1 looked great shooting in +12db.

I am upset for what I when though to sell me old great taking video cam to this XL1s.

Have you seen this with the new XL1s or are you just saying to your self that Na its just all in my head.

Any comments?

Mark
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Old November 13th, 2001, 10:48 AM   #2
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I've shot with both, and to my eye the 12db gain on the XL1S is cleaner than the XL1. I think 18db gain on the XL1S appears equivalent to 12db on the XL1.
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Old November 13th, 2001, 11:03 AM   #3
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Chris, I well show you some frams with the XL1s And GL1.

I will post them in a few.
Mark
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Old November 13th, 2001, 12:11 PM   #4
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Mark I want to see those frames too! I find this to be very interesting.


Michael pappas


<<<-- Originally posted by RockFord : Chris, I well show you some frams with the XL1s And GL1.

I will post them in a few.
Mark -->>>
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Old November 13th, 2001, 12:20 PM   #5
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Frames are up.

http://www.fast-mhz.com/XL1/xl1-test.htm
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Old November 13th, 2001, 12:41 PM   #6
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is that between the xl1s and the gl or xl1?...if its the gl they use diff chips
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Old November 13th, 2001, 09:17 PM   #7
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Hmmm. Noise does not show up well in the .jpg files, except perhaps in the larger file size of the XL1s shots, but htat may just reflect the lowere detail available in the darker GL1 shots. The XL1s also appears to be a stop or so brighter.

A better comparison could be made if you stop down the XL1s lens so the images have about the same brightness at the same gain and shutter speed.
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Old November 13th, 2001, 10:47 PM   #8
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Hmm...not sure that shows what you think.

The XL1s shots are brighter. It might be because you don't see the same detail with the GL1 shots that you do with the XL1s. But it seems to bring out slightly more detail. Look at the objects or photographs in the room. On the GL1 it's a lot less details coming through so it appears fuzzy. Because of the extra detail the XL1s seems slightly more jagged. Personally you can fuzz it up in After Effects if you like that better but it's nice to have the extra details. Otherwise with these pictures I'm completely missing what you are trying to point out. Anyone else?
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Old November 14th, 2001, 08:54 AM   #9
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Mark, XL1S at 12db has a much brighter picture than XL1. It has a bit more noise at higher sharpness level, but if you bring the gain down so the picture is comparable in brightness to XL1 and also do not crank the sharpness up to make it the same as old XL1, I bet you will not see any more noise than the old one.
Just try to compare apples and apples.
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Old November 14th, 2001, 09:13 AM   #10
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Thanks all for your help. I jumped the gun on this one. You are all right that the xl1s is much brighter so it's showing the noise more than the old xl1.
So I will lower the video setup in the menu to help on the noise. To bad I have to shoot +12db in the reception cuz at +6db the video looks great but is to dark. The only time I see the noise, when the reception has low light on the background. Thatís when you really see it. +12db in the church looks GREAT! It's the dark backgrounds that show the noise.

Are there any other things I should know to make better shooting?

Thank you all
Mark
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Old November 14th, 2001, 09:36 AM   #11
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I would suggest you try the Aperture priority setting, with Auto gain. This way when the picture is really dark, the auto gain will go up to 12db - it does not go above 12db in auto - but as soon as the camera sees a bit brighter area, it will reduce the gain real fast, and will give you cleaner image.
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Old November 14th, 2001, 10:03 AM   #12
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Yea but in the reception the Aperture priority always stays at 1.6 cuz its so dark in the audo mode. pretty much the settigs stay at f 1.6 at 60th sec. the only thing that changes is the gain from +12 to 0db at times.

Mark
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Old November 14th, 2001, 05:15 PM   #13
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A thought, you might try play with gamma and perhaps some other settings in post to brighten all but the deep shadows where the noise would be most apparent.
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Old November 14th, 2001, 09:36 PM   #14
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My XL1s is my first digital camcorder and I love it. I usually use it and my L2 for medical imaging but I tried it to record a lunar occultation the other night and the results were fantastic! I used the 30 db gain setting and was able to record the extinction of a mag 5 star on the dark limb of the moon. I shot simultaneously with my L2 using a 250 mm reflex lens and while the image was acceptable the Xl1s provided a nearly noise free image with good brightness and resolution of the lunar limb and the star.

It is a great camera.

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Old November 15th, 2001, 04:25 AM   #15
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Hey everyone,

I've been looking at the pictures Rockford provided
on the website (thanks!).... and am a bit dissapointed...
I wanted to buy a canon but this severly throws me
off... why am I seeing digital jaggies all over the place?
The noise isn't bothering me that much, cause I plan
to shoot with much light anyway... Those jaggies and
"step" patterns make me uneasy a lot! Why are they
there? Someone help a confused person? Thanks!
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