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Old December 29th, 2009, 03:18 PM   #1
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CineForm + PPRO + AJA = Sync Issues?

Anyone else using PPRO CS3 with the latest CineForm 2K build seeing sync issues with output from the AJA card? (I believe ANY build exhibits this issue)

I've got multiple machines I've tested now, all demonstrating a sync issue where, given a 1280x720 59.94 CineForm project...

>>>The audio is ahead of the video by 4 frames.<<<

This doesn't sound huge, but in broadcast, it can mean thousands of dollars lost in a bad spot going out to air.

I'm hoping to find other CineForm/PPRO/AJA users using CineForm for Broadcast. I'm so far unable to solve these sync issues.

Seems to fall BETWEEN the responsibility of either CineForm or AJA :/


If you're having these problems, or if you're not... I'd like to know some others using this setup as it seems that "broadcast" is not the main goal of CineForm. We need a support group! :)

Thanks to all,
Brent
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Old December 29th, 2009, 04:06 PM   #2
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I thought I'd add:

Windows XP 64bit
Two Xeon X5492 processors
8 GB RAM
Media on Raid-5 Array

CineForm Prospect 4K
AJA Xena 2k (cineform drivers)
Audio and Video Output via HDSDI

CineForm 1280x720 59.94 preset
CineForm playback buffer maxed out
Disable preview playback checked
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Old December 30th, 2009, 05:48 PM   #3
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Any takers?

Please don't tell me I'm the ONLY person on the planet using CineForm and AJA...


:)
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Old December 30th, 2009, 06:26 PM   #4
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I have seen that issue, and I believe it is specific to 64bit. There is a special ASIO driver for 64bit that allows you to change the audio delay, among other things. I am traveling and don't have access to that file right now. Check with support.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 05:37 PM   #5
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If you could get back to me on that info, that would be great.

I'm currently using ASIO4ALL.

It would be great to one day get synced video from my CineForm projects! :P
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Old January 5th, 2010, 05:52 PM   #6
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You have to use the CineForm ASIO audio device to get AJA synced audio -- AFAIK.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 12:00 PM   #7
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David,

It seems as though the CineForm ASIO won't install unless you've got ASIO4ALL installed too. Something Tim mentioned.

Within Premiere and After Effects, we use the CineForm ASIO output selection.

The audio is technically "synced", as it doesn't seem to wander throughout playback.

The problem is that it's synced in the wrong place and requires shifting the audio track "out of sync" in order to get AJA video/audio output lined up.

This leads me to believe that there is still an issue with CineForm's AJA driver.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 12:42 PM   #8
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CineForm AJA driver is AJA driver, we don't change it. But something may have been broken with AJA versions changes, yet we aren't seeing that here. Will check again.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 02:40 PM   #9
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I am having OOS issues too when rendering out to a Cineform avi.
Win XP, Prospect HD latest build, CS3.
Timeline in Pro is sync

I uninstalled and returned to Prospect 4.0.7.216
Rendering now to see if it is ok.

Just rendered and checked out ok, so for now on i am sticking with 4.0.7.216

Last edited by Gildo Houtekamer; January 6th, 2010 at 03:36 PM. Reason: more info
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Old January 6th, 2010, 03:39 PM   #10
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This is not related, people report to support.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 05:59 PM   #11
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Gildo and others.

I intended for this thread to deal only with CineForm and the AJA output card.

I understand there are very few people using this combination (judging by the lack of attendance here)

Please keep other cineform questions (export to file, preview, rendering, importing, etc.) to another more topical thread.

Thank you.


David, I have brought up our audio/video issues with both Tim and Jake. I know y'all are busy and I hadn't heard of a solution. So I figured it would be good to "put it out there" so to speak.

CineForm as a codec works great, and I've had no issues with rendering to a file.

The only problems I run into are dealing with the AJA card.

I know we're close to CS4 RT, maybe things will behave differently then?
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Old January 7th, 2010, 12:47 PM   #12
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I have the AJA XENA LHi and waiting for the "CS4 RT", no luck so far:-(
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Old January 8th, 2010, 04:58 PM   #13
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I feel your pain.

I use CS4 after effects (cuz, let's face it, there is no RT :)
but have maintained my CS3 for cineform specifically.

I've also had sync issues (read your more recent post)

I've found that with CS3 and cineform, my Xena 2K cards have audio syncing issues, however the LHi card utilizing the HDMI output doesn't have audio syncing issues.

Using the LHi card and CS3 cineform, even my scrub movements are rendered video/audio in sync with the CTI.

I'd assume that the output timing issue is somewhere in the conversion of the cineform codec into the HDSDI stream, as it may be tougher to do (processor wise) than output via the HDMI signal.

(Just my 2 cents)

Mikael, I'd like to stay in touch as it seems we're both using AJA output with Cineform.

I'm staying positive that the CS4 RT engine may bring a fix to these issues...
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Old January 8th, 2010, 05:21 PM   #14
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Brent

I've uninstalled my AJA (put it on hold for RT Prospect HD) and bought the RME HDSPe AIO to sad I still have bigg problem in side Cineform preset and Cineform AVI files in CS4 Premiere 4.2.1.

I truly think Cineform need to look at this, the same computer with CS3 Premiere 3.2 is working fine with the same files?

I love to use my AJA XENA LHI, to sad I can't so far:-(

Regards
Mikael
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Old January 10th, 2010, 01:18 AM   #15
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One question that occurs to me is, what audio output are you using? The soundcard output is not going to sync. The SDI embedded audio, AES, and AJA analog all should though. It always has for me, except when I upgraded to CXP64, and then I had to install ASIO4All to get it to work. If your HDMI audio is sunk on the LHi, and the SDI is not, that sounds like a strange AJA issue, since clearly the card is recieving the info. I haven't used my AJA's in Prospect CS3 projects in close to a year, but I will be soon (or in CS4 if its ready) but I will be soon, so I am curious to know if there are new sync issues in the recent builds. Have you ever gotten it to work in the past?
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