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Old October 13th, 2016, 07:54 PM   #1
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Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

I just tested a 7Q+ I recently got access to and all 1080 resolutions are limited to 30fps. Good on you for fixing the HDMI bug that plagued the Nanoflash though, I'm likely going to use the Odyssey as a proper HDMI to HD-SDI converter for my Nanoflash to record content with black video.

One of my friends who's an engineer says it's completely possible to send scaled 1080i/p to the monitor in 60 fields/frames. Why is this omitted as an obvious feature that those working with HFR content NEED from the Odyssey?

Edit: The Odyssey has 2 switchable in or out SDI ports, If the 1.5G dedicated outputs are disabled, can those 2 be used for 1080p60 3G-SDI output? This is a big wishlist item for the Odyssey is to support HFR preview at 1080 resolutions and true HFR passthrough.
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Last edited by Jack Zhang; October 14th, 2016 at 07:05 AM.
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Old October 14th, 2016, 08:04 AM   #2
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Re: Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

Dear Jack,

The Odyssey7Q and Odyssey7q+ can record, from certain sources, typically Raw sources,
up to 2K at 240 fps or HD up to 240 fps and of course, 1080p60 an 1080i60.

Playback is limited to up to 30 fps.

In order to support 1080p60 normal playback speeds, while being limited to playback of only 30 frames per second, we have a mode that will playback of 1080p60 at the normal cadence of 60 fps by skipping every other frame.

As far as I know, playback of 1080i50, 1080i59.94 and 1080i60 is normal.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully,
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Old October 14th, 2016, 07:26 PM   #3
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Re: Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

I hope a Odyssey 7Q+ HFR edition will be released soon that will solve this problem. This is a major thing that is going to drive away people who are seeking the Odyssey for HFR production and proper passthrough.

The A->A, B->B mode is also broken in that it is nowhere near the same function of the E-E Direct of the Nanoflash. 1080i is de-interlaced to 1080p with a really bad de-interlacing algorithm.
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Old October 15th, 2016, 07:26 AM   #4
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Re: Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

Dear Jack,

The Odyssey7Q+ is an amazing device that offers a many features and functions.

We would also like to offer an E to E mode, but there is a technical limitation.

Of course this can be offered externally using a Distribution Amp or other gear.

Respectfully,
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Old October 16th, 2016, 02:58 AM   #5
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Re: Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

So you're saying HDMI/SDI DAs are necessary for preview and record of content above 30fps? As an HFR producer, that's only a band-aid solution to the actual heart of the problem.

I'm sorry, but this is making me seriously consider a competitor when HFR people don't have the proper tools to know whether or not they're actually getting HFR content from the source. Say the output mode on the camera was set to 60p and the internal recording frame rate was set to 30p. With the 7Q+, there's no difference when monitoring, so a DIT will be fired over that mistake if it came down to it.
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Old October 16th, 2016, 06:37 AM   #6
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Re: Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

Dear Jack,

I have not successfully communicated the capabilities of our Odyssey7Q and Odyssey7Q+.

The Odyssey7Q and Odyssey7Q+can record, from many cameras that are equipped to do so, up to 240 fps.

Examples are the Sony FS700, Sony FS7 with XDCA, Sony FS5, when these cameras are in 2K Raw mode. Our Raw Bundle is required.

From the above cameras, one can record 2K Raw, up to 240 fps and HD or 2K Apple ProRes 422, up to 240s fps.

And the Sony FS700 and FS5 have special cache modes were we can record 4K up to 120 fps, in Raw or Apple ProRes 422. Our Raw Bundle is required. These cameras can output 4K at 100 fps for 4 seconds or 120 fps for 3.63 seconds.

And very shortly, we will support, Raw from the Panasonic Varicam LT, up to 60 fps. Our Raw Bundle is required.

The Canon C500 has a special 4K H Raw mode, and we can record continuously from this camera at 120 fps (119.88 fps).

Other cameras support up to 60 fps in regular video mode.

From these cameras, depending on the camera we can record in Apple ProRes 4444 or Apple ProRes 422, or full uncompressed (DPX).

------------------------

One application for high frame rates is for slow motion, and in this application, one wants to playback the footage, in the recording device, at a slower speed in order to see the "slo-mo" effect on-set.

The Odyssey7Q and Odyssey7Q+ can playback higher frame rate recorded footage at 23.98, 24.00, 25.00, 29.97, 30.00, 50.00, 59.94 and 60 fps. The normal playback speeds for Slow-Mo are 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97 and 30.

Above 30 fps, we do skip every other frame to achieve the desired playback effect, without playing back every frame.

For slow-motion, playback is normally at speeds 30 fps or below.

----------------------------

You are wanting to record in High Frame Rate and playback in High Frame Rate.

I assume that you would like to record in 59.94 or 60 fps and playback at 59.94 or 60 fps, and playback every frame.

We have not developed this playback speed at this time, and this is a significant development project. We have concentrated on other features and functions, at least so far.

Jack, you do not need a Distribution Amp to record up to 240 fps in the Odyssey.

And, the Odyssey has sophisticated tools at your fingertips to determine exactly which format you are receiving from one, two, three or four cameras connected to your Odyssey simultaneously.

Our Video Input Status area, at the top left of the scree (to the right of the Power and Temperature information) can be pressed and you will see a very detailed display of the current signals coming into the Odyssey. This is very accurate and precise information.

Without pressing the Video Input Status area, we show an abbreviated display that shows the frame rate of the input stream. Thus, to determine if the input is 30 or 60 fps, or something else, please just check the display that we provide at the top of the screen. And for additional information, just touch this area.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully,
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Old October 17th, 2016, 02:02 AM   #7
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Re: Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Keaton View Post
Above 30 fps, we do skip every other frame to achieve the desired playback effect, without playing back every frame.

For slow-motion, playback is normally at speeds 30 fps or below.
This is simply unacceptable as a signal passthrough. (which uses the same logic as your image processing logic which is also in use during playback) There is no way the Odyssey can be a HFR passthrough this way. Not unless the output in the image processing logic is 3G-SDI. (which would require more development) It's also not a HFR VTR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Keaton View Post
You are wanting to record in High Frame Rate and playback in High Frame Rate.

I assume that you would like to record in 59.94 or 60 fps and playback at 59.94 or 60 fps, and playback every frame.

We have not developed this playback speed at this time, and this is a significant development project. We have concentrated on other features and functions, at least so far.
I have a person on standby who is WILLING to work on this as a contract for you guys if you should wish, cause this is very important for the HFR producing community like new age content producers. I really hate to see such a feature rich device lack the fundamentals of HFR monitoring, playback and passthrough.

I'm not at all concerned about recording capability, I'm REALLY worried about the lack of monitoring, playback and passing through native HFR content (even 1080i in certain cases, like the A->A and B->B mode.)
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I wait for the day cost-efficient global shutter 60fps capable CMOS sensors emerge for use on major manufacturers' cameras. (Sony, Canon, etc.) Rolling Shutters are a plague.

Last edited by Jack Zhang; October 17th, 2016 at 04:27 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2016, 03:42 AM   #8
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Re: Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

I just tested 1080p60 recording and the Timecode from the internal preset seed and internal clock is always running at double speed. Was HFR recording even tested with a internal timecode seed?
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Old October 19th, 2016, 06:21 AM   #9
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Re: Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

Dear Jack,

The current SMPTE Timecode standards support timecode up to and including 30.00 fps.

There is no support for timecode above 30 fps in the SMPTE Standard.

Different devices handle this differently.

This is a problem, and there are currently high-level meetings being held around the country to discuss and get suggestions for resolving this problem.

Respectfully,
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Old October 23rd, 2016, 07:27 PM   #10
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Re: Why is the 1080i/p preview only 30fps?

Adobe Premiere Pro supports SMPTE at drop frame 60 and non-drop frame 60. Don't try to tell me that isn't standard.
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