Odyssey7Q - Apple ProRes 4K Support

[Cliff Totten]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Chris,

No, our planned 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ firmware release, due out around the end of this month, will not include C500 support (for recording 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ).

It will include support for cameras that can output 4K/Ultra HD(Quad HD) over Quad Link HD-SDI 1.5G outputs.

And it will include support for the Sony FS700/FS7 with Expansion Pack.

To the best of my knowledge, the C500 can't output 4K video (not Raw) over the available HD-SDI outputs.

We have to add support to deBayer the C500's 4K Raw outputs, which we can certainly do, but we do not have this ready yet.

We had already developed the FS700/FS7 4K Raw to 4K Video deBayer.

This was required for our FS700/FS7 4K to HD Apple ProRes 422 HQ mode which has proven to be very popular.

This provided a jump start for us, so that we could support the FS700/FS7 in our initial 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ release.

Respectfully,

Hi Dan,

Have you contacted Sony about this issue with the A7s and it's problem with SLOG-2 gamma curve from it's HDMI port? They are more likely to pay attention to Convergent Design than a common consumer buyer.

I'm calling Sony myself next week. Unfortunately, the A7s is supported but Sony's consumer dept and not it's pro/broadcast folks. (Pro is easily the sharpest support techs that Sony has) I suspect that their consumer Alpha support will probably not even understand what SLOG-2 even is. Will post what they say here soon.

Thanks for noticing this issue and speaking up about it!

Bravo to you and CD!

CT

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Cliff,

We know that our Sony contacts were extremely busy getting ready for the recent announcements and IBC.

We will be speaking with them after IBC is over.

I certainly do not feel that this was designed to cripple the camera.

I personally feel that someone felt that A7s users would be happier if their HDMI output (and thus the image on their HDMI televisions and monitors) would look better if it wasn't in S-Log 2.

I expect that Sony will address your request and the requests of others that want to record 4K from this wonderful camera.

Respectfully,

[Cliff Totten]

CALLING ALL A7s OWNERS!!!:

Please try this:

1.) Record S-LOG2 to the internal XAVC-S codec file. (try an easy non-moving scene)
2.) Record from the HDMI port.
3.) Bring both files in to your NLE.
4.) Analyse and compare each with waveform scopes and histograms.

What do you see? (see my attatchments)

This is something that should trouble all A7s owners and I'm trying to get more people to post their results.This is something that Sony must hear from A7s owners right away.

CT

[Cliff Totten]

I don't know if I'm not allowed to post test results from another site but here goes:

Sony A7s DESTROYS it's own SLOG-2 gamma curve over it's HDMI port

Another test from another A7s owner that displays this same problem,....

Any more A7s testers out there?

CT

[Cliff Totten]

Here is what people have determined so far: The A7s internal XAVC-S seems to use the 16-235 range and avoids exceeding the upper and lower end of that scale. However, it also seems that this is not so with the HDMI output. Values for that WILL exceed 16-235. The A7s adds contrast to that to bring those values to 0-255!

Its possible that it's not losing any image data by doing this. It simply maps "16" to "0" and "235" to "255" on the HDMI output.

This will certainly cause a noticeable (and alarming) difference in brightness between XAVC-S and HDMI recorded images. However, it might be OK because no real image data is lost in that process. (In theory and hopefully)

People are still trying to determine if the actual SLOG-2 gamma curve is maintained in this contrast spread.

Love to know more of what Convergent Design thinks.

CT

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Friends,

We have postponed the upcoming firmware update for the Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q by a few weeks.

Two weeks ago at IBC we showed 4K ProRes 422 HQ capture and this functionality is complete.

But some additional features, while functioning, need to be completed in a reliable and user-friendly form for release. We expect to make this firmware update available in mid-October.

Respectfully,

[Jim Martin]

Dan-
Thanks for the update....keep us posted.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

[Chris Bottoms]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Chris,

No, our planned 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ firmware release, due out around the end of this month, will not include C500 support (for recording 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ).

It will include support for cameras that can output 4K/Ultra HD(Quad HD) over Quad Link HD-SDI 1.5G outputs.

And it will include support for the Sony FS700/FS7 with Expansion Pack.

To the best of my knowledge, the C500 can't output 4K video (not Raw) over the available HD-SDI outputs.

We have to add support to deBayer the C500's 4K Raw outputs, which we can certainly do, but we do not have this ready yet.

We had already developed the FS700/FS7 4K Raw to 4K Video deBayer.

This was required for our FS700/FS7 4K to HD Apple ProRes 422 HQ mode which has proven to be very popular.

This provided a jump start for us, so that we could support the FS700/FS7 in our initial 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ release.

Respectfully,

Hi Dan-

Is this still the case- is the new firmware able to debayer Canon 4K Raw and make it ProRes?

Thanks

Chris

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Chris,

We are busy working on adding 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ support for the C500.

We will release it as soon as practical.

Thus, our initial 4K Apple ProRes HQ firmware release, 3.11.100,
does not have C500 support (for 4K Apple ProRes 422).

We can record the very popular C500, 2K format, in 2K Apple ProRes 422 HQ, at 23.976, 24.00, 25, and 29.97 fps

We also support recording 2K in DPX (full uncompressed).


Respectfully,

[Mat Thompson]

Hi Dan
Will the 7Q support 4k 50p ProRes at somepoint?
Thanks
Mat

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Matt,

Our 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ is currently limited to up to 30 frames per second.

While we want to be able to support 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ at 50 frames per second, we are not promising this.

This is a feature that we will not know, for certain, that we can actually achieve 50 fps, until we actually fully implement it.

I hope you appreciate that encoding 4K at 50 fps, requires us to do this in real-time, which is vastly different than a Non-Linear Editor on a computer that can render out 4K at 50 fps, but does so at whatever speed that it can achieve, even if this is only 10 frames per second.

And, in order to actually encode 50 frames per second, we may have to encode far more than 50 frames per second.

While this sounds strange, we have to meet Apple's target bit-rates, for each and every frame.

If we encode a frame, and we are not within + or - 10% of the target bit-rate, we have to try another way of encoding it so that we do meet the target bit rate.

This vastly increases the computational workload.

And encoding 4K at 30 fps, is the same as encoding 2K at 120 fps.

(4K, 4096 x 2160, can be thought of as four quadrants, with each quadrant being 2K.)

Ultra-HD / Quad HD, 3840 x 2160, can be thought of as four quadrants, with each quadrant being HD (1920 x 1080).

In summary, if we can get it to work recording 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ at 50 frames per second, and we find that it works 100% of the time in our testing, then we will release it.



Respectfully,