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Old April 4th, 2006, 02:13 PM   #1
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I am curious - and a little disturbed - that a couple recent threads have been closed so quickly. I've been participating in this board for about three years - it's been a great resource for me - but i don't understand why the thread on the apple fx1 price was closed so quickly.

Seems to me that this is a natural and lively thread for this board - and one that keeps suppliers honest. I bought the first FX1 in Norway, and I would have bought # 2 from the Apple offer - but it was mysteriously gone by the time i got there.

I came to the form a day later, interested to hear of others experiences - but no. It was a taboo to discuss?

Why in the world is this not an appropriate discussion topic for this community?

The same for a recent post by a member politely asking for advice in B & H on a return qustion before he called B & H. I have been a satisfied B & H customer for years - his question did not offend me at all. If I had been a first time B& H buyer in the same situation, i might have posted the same question. Learning the lay of the land. What is the harm, and why close the thread?

Even if the question offends, or rankles, shouldn't the community naturally sort this out, and not the authorities? What are we scared of? B& H was in no way besmirched by that gentlemans question.

What specific, exact forum rules were violated in these two situations?

If nothing else, this should be made clear for everyone's benefit, so it is clear where the tripwire runs.
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Old April 4th, 2006, 03:01 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet Lucey
I don't understand why the thread on the apple fx1 price was closed so quickly.
Actually there were two threads on that topic, both of which were closed. The first one degenerated into the suggestion of filing a lawsuit against Apple. This message board is privately owned and operated, and there are certain things that I don't want to see happening here. And one of those things is a lawsuit. If somebody wants to talk about organizing a class action against some company, they'll have to organize it on some other site. I don't want that kind of thing going on here. Nor do I have to justify why I don't want it. Suffice to say it's a liability issue and let's leave it at that.

The second thread on that topic was seeking "user experiences" during that episode. I'm not sure what the goal is... after all, it simply was a typo on the Apple site, and nobody has lost any money over it. Regardless, we didn't make that message disappear; we simply closed it and advised interested parties to contact that poster by email. This message board is not a platform for launching crusades. This message board is about sharing technical information and exchanging ideas relating to the creative use of the equipment.

Quote:
a natural and lively thread for this board - and one that keeps suppliers honest.
Well, I have to disagree. I saw it as a bitch session directed at Apple. The internet is full of places where you can complain about almost anything, and again, I'm not interested in attracting people into a discussion complaining about a typo on Apple's website. It doesn't help anything involving technical or creative issues. Keep in mind that I'm not stopping anybody from complaining about Apple; all of those folks are free to go to some other site and take up the crusade elsewhere. It just isn't going to happen here is all. It's not a topic that concerns technical or creative matters.

As far as keeping suppliers honest? Well, the only suppliers we talk about around here are the ones which support this site. Out of fairness to them for helping to sponsor DV Info Net, I grant them exclusivity on discussions involving "where to buy." And their honesty isn't a question. I know all of them on a face-to-face basis, and I can personally vouch for their honesty (see "Sponsors" link in my signature). All of our site sponsors are safe to buy from.

Quote:
I bought the first FX1 in Norway, and I would have bought # 2 from the Apple offer - but it was mysteriously gone by the time i got there.
I'm sorry, but no you would not have bought it, because the offer was in error. As has been explained numerous times, it was a mistake, a typo, an error. I understand that some folks are upset because they have not been able to capitalize on Apple's mistake. I understand, but I don't sympathize.

Quote:
It was a taboo to discuss?
If it was a taboo, we would have made it disappear altogether. It's not that big of a deal so we simply closed it and left it in place.

Quote:
Why in the world is this not an appropriate discussion topic for this community?
Because it is neither a technical or creative topic. Why in the world is that so difficult to understand?

Quote:
The same for a recent post by a member politely asking for advice in B & H on a return qustion before he called B & H. I have been a satisfied B & H customer for years - his question did not offend me at all. What is the harm, and why close the thread?
It's a matter of fairness to B&H. Their customer service department are the only people in a position to actually help that person out. In a situation like that one, the proper thing to do is to call B&H next time they're open and ask for customer service. Sometimes the best way to solve a problem, can be found outside of the internet -- in this case, a phone call to B&H was the key to solving that guy's problem.

I'm interested in real-world results, not the number of posts made to this board.

Quote:
Even if the question offends, or rankles, shouldn't the community naturally sort this out, and not the authorities? What are we scared of?
My intention for this site since Day One has been to provide a streamlined resource tightly focused on technical and creative matters. That B&H thread was neither (it was a customer service issue best solved... by... that's right, calling customer service).

This process of streamlining the flow of traffic found here, and pruning topics that don't belong, have led to our phenomenal growth beyond what I ever expected. So I know I'm on the right track with this weeding out process. If it wasn't popular, this site would die on the vine. Instead it grows bigger every day.

I've always said -- and will say it again now -- there are PLENTY of other sites out there, other message boards, other online communities, many of which have posting guidelines which are much more loose than ours. This one is very tightly controlled and maintained on purpose. There are others which are nowhere near as stringent. Anybody who feels threatened by the way this site is operated, really needs to consider going to another site instead. It's a huge internet. There are plenty of other choices out there. I'm catering to a very specific mindset with this one and it isn't meant for everybody. I want all visitors to understand that DV Info Net is not designed to appeal to everyone; it's designed to attract a very specific audience... one that understands and appreciates the gardening that we do here. My polite and earnest suggestion for anyone bothered by the occasional closed thread here, is to please consider visiting some other site instead.

Quote:
If nothing else, this should be made clear for everyone's benefit, so it is clear where the tripwire runs
Don't sweat that tripwire, if you ever make a thread that gets closed it's not the end of the world, don't take it personally, and experience with this board helps you to learn your way. In the long run it's just words on a screen. We're trying to give you some useful information that you can take away into your day and put to work in real life applications, free from the noise and other junk commonly found elsewhere. That's what it's all about.

Hope this helps,
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Old April 4th, 2006, 11:51 PM   #3
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Is this board run for-profit? or just as a nice service to the "community"?

-thanks
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Old April 5th, 2006, 06:38 AM   #4
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Hi Pete, in this world of business, everything is a for-profit venture. Even the non-profit corporations.

You need to make money to support a business. If this board didn't make money, I don't think Chris would be able to keep this venture running for as long as it has.

He (Chris) has done a great job of keeping with his vision for this community and hasn't wavered upon his principals as far as I can tell, and that is why I respect this board as do others here.

As Chris has mentioned, he does not need time taken away from him to appear in court for litigations against him for other people's comments.

Yes, I make mistakes and post some no-no's on this board as well, but you just have to let it slide of your skin as hard as it is to do, sometimes, as you might feel that it's still relevant to the community and wish to share it.

But than again, I've come across some sites which are heavily patrolled by trolls and makes the site a hate-riddled website I no longer wish to visit.

Chris, thanks for a job well done, even if I might bitch at you for taking down something in the future. :)
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Old April 5th, 2006, 07:56 AM   #5
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The things that I like about this site (and why I check daily).
1- Real life experience.
2- Real life information.
3-Ability to ask and answer questions minus the whining, hostile bs so prevalent on other sites.
And last but not least-
No TROLLS or SPAMMERS!
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Old April 5th, 2006, 09:19 AM   #6
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For Pete Tews,

This whole thing has become its own part time occupation. I can't afford to do it for free. There's a ton of downloadable video hosted from DV Info Net, several gigabytes worth that are hit all the time, and the server bill is enormous. I wish I was a wealthy philanthropist who could afford to funnel money and resources into this thing for free, but I've got bills to pay just like everyone else. Just take a look at the other message boards in this industry, and the amount of advertising on them. Many of them are just saturated with flashing banner ads. All of these site owners are in it for profit, they have to be. Big sites like this can't exsist without some means of financial support. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to make a living by doing this thing. Many of our members are also in business for themselves and are making a go at being self-employed. They can relate to what I'm doing here.

Where I try to be different is, I won't accept just anybody who wants to get on the sponsor list for this site. The ones I pick are simply the best, and I know all of them personally on a face to face basis. They're not allowed on here unless I've met them in the real world first.

Quote:
you might feel that it's still relevant to the community and wish to share it.
I can appreciate the desire to share something you feel is important, but you've got to remember where the boundaries are at this place. No political, sexual, or religious content. That's not what we're here for and those topics are community killers anyway. I have very strong political viewpoints of my own that I feel are important, but I'd never put them in here out of respect for others who feel the opposite political way. I want you here for your technical and creative expertise, not your political affiliation. We point all "where to buy" questions to our site sponsors. They make this place possible so they get exclusivity on where to buy, period. No axe grinders, no crusaders, no full-time nay-sayers. Don't camp out in some forum and constantly repeat how much something sucks. That's a personal problem, get your head around it and move on with your life. Don't talk trash about other sites. If you were booted out of some other forum, your chances here could be slim. Just start with a fresh page and leave the other place out of it altogether. Try to resist the urge to push people to some other site. That's just not cool. And we already know where all the other sites are. Many of our members here also belong to those other online communities anyway.

Some of the biggest misunderstandings have resulted from a failure to realize that DV Info Net is a different kind of online community compared to everything else out there. Not saying it's better; just different.

Okay this has gone on long enough but a lot of it is just proper internet manners. If you're not into manners (read: mutual respect for each other plus the house where you're posting) then I don't think I want to know you. Don't worry if you get a yanked post or a closed thread, it's not that big of a deal. Don't take it personally and don't dwell on it. The only time it ever becomes a problem resulting in a banned account is when somebody insists on trying to push something through that we obviously don't want. If you feel like you have to get it out there and it's not making it on DV Info Net, then simply choose one of the many other message boards in this industry. You've got lots of other message board options besides this one. Hope this helps,
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Old April 5th, 2006, 10:24 AM   #7
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Chris, you don't need my support but here goes.

1. Anyone can purchase web space and set up a forum...easily. The only thing public about this forum is that we all have access to it.

2. Chris has a tremendous resource here with international coverage and an extremely diverse, talented user group. If this was TV, we'd be subjected to 20 minutes of forced advertising every hour. Chris deserves to make a living here, and there is no question that it is deserved.

3. How much time is involved in maintaining the infrastructure, and managing the posts here? How much does the bandwidth required cost? I can tell you from personal experience, that it is virtually a full time job, complete with politics, squabbles, and stress. How many emails does Chris get when the site is down? How many of them are "angry".

I am absolutely indebted and grateful to Chris and this community for their support, help and encouragement. We should all be.

Here's what should be a daily "Thank You" Chris.
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Old April 5th, 2006, 01:44 PM   #8
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Ditto!

well put Dennis!
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Old April 5th, 2006, 02:10 PM   #9
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Ditto again. I am fairly new to this site, but have had the advice of many seasoned veterans on many diverse issues. That is absolutely invaluable, and I cannot thank Chris Hurd enough for doing this.
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Old April 5th, 2006, 06:50 PM   #10
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Thank you for the info!

-pete
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Old April 9th, 2006, 05:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Wood
How much time is involved in ... managing the posts here? ... that it is virtually a full time job ... How many emails does Chris get when the site is down?
As a forum moderator here I can tell you that a massive amount of time is
involved by all moderators to manage the posts. It is just overwhelming
(and it could definitely be a full time job!). Not because so much intervening
needs to be done, but just due to the sheer volume of posts.

Anyway, we've all build a great community together. Can't wait to meet some
of you @ NAB this year.

p.s. "when the site is down?" :) This site is never down ;)
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