Lumiere HD workflow

Chris Hurd · January 3rd, 2006, 10:06 AM

Moved to Lumiere forum from HD100 forum.

Bruce Meyers · January 3rd, 2006, 04:46 PM

Ok I've asked many questions about the process of this TEMPORARY WORKFLOW but no one has been able to answer my questions. I'm sorry to sound so annoying but this is a very critical issue for me right now. Mr. Mullen, I checked your site and found nothing so far about working "double system" what does that mean? I'm surprised this issue has been tackled before, I have searched these forums for an answer but have found none. Is apple going to release an update by the ninth? If not I'm in big trouble. If this has been tackled before, please refer me to the post that explains how one uses THE HD100 to EDIT FOOTAGE REAL TIME IN FCP. I tried Mr. Nate Weaver's suggestions, and they didn't work out. Perhaps he could enlighten me as to his specific CAPTURE and workflow methods since he has proven capable of shooting editing and producing final products in this medium.

Lumiere HD has not responded to my requests for clarification in their "CUSTOMIZED TEMPORARY WORKFLOW SOLUTION"

FROM PREVIOUS POST:

"This is getting me ticked, when I go to STEP 9: add to selection and scale it totally screws up the audio, I get this strange tremelo effect, is this normal? The regular audio file doesen't have this, the sound wavers in the add to selection and scaled version, how do I get normal audio? PLease explain this to me.

STEP 11: 11. Open all digital negative movs and export to codec of choice in 23.98 (DV, 720 X 480, 23.98) to a folder called 'realtime_clips'

How do I export these clips? Individually? Do I repeat steps 1-10 again anda again and again? Please tell me what to do! What codec is recommended?"

The audio screws up when I do this. ADD TO SELECTION AND SCALE. I've done it dozens of times. I'm sorry to sound sooooo hysterical and needy but it's make or break for me right now and if I don't get this system up and running I've really done for. Please somebody, if this has been discussed in detail I will greatly appreciate refering me to a previous post, I have been unable to find this information in the forums. WHAT IS "DOUBLE SYSTEM" STEVE MUllen I checked your site and did a search but found nothing accessible about editing double system. Would you be so kind as to give me a brief explanation? What software am I to capture with etc. workflow whathaveyou perhaps I'm an idiot but I could not find this information on your site without ostensibly first buying your book. PLease help!!!

Frederic Lumiere · January 3rd, 2006, 04:54 PM

Bruce,

Are you using Lumiere HD beta 1.6b2? Make sure you are by doing "About Lumiere HD" before demultiplexing.

Frederic Lumiere · January 3rd, 2006, 11:19 PM

Support for Lumiere HD is provided on our forum, not here. We don't check this forum very frequently. This is information which was provided with the email when you purchased the product.

Many, many customers are succesfully editing HD100 24p with Lumiere HD and enjoy realtime in the FCP timeline.

The solution isn't perfect, but it works. It does require however that you follow the workflow exactly. One small error will through the workflow.

Simply try the workflow and post one question at a time on the support forum located at when you hit a snag and we'll help you:

http://lumierehd.com/forums/

Finally, I always recommend to give yourself time to experiment with new technology before jumping in a mission critical project with workflows you haven't tested. This stuff is getting more and more complicated and intricate as new formats are introduced. The good old time of DV are gone.

It generates too much stress on you and everyone else involved.

So please, give it a shot and let us know one issue at a time and we'll help you through it.

For instance. You mention using DVCPRO HD 60p but our workflow mentions DV 720X480. Were you able to complete the workflow with our parameters first before venturing into changing it?

Frederic

Tim Dashwood · January 6th, 2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Connor

No! Unless you have a JVC HDV Camera

Actually, it's not even necessary with the JVC. There are other ways to digitize 720P24 footage.

Matthew Kaplan · January 20th, 2006, 10:39 PM

Tim-

How can you digitize the footage if FCP 5.0 doesn't support it?

Tim Dashwood · February 7th, 2006, 01:53 PM

http://www.lumierehd.com/currentbeta_download.php

They don't have a version history but have claimed "improved compatibility with Hd100 & BR-HD50," but from what I gather on their boards "auto increment" should work properly now, crashing during demultiplexing should be fixed, and it shouldn't crash when capturing over TC breaks.

Frederic has also mentioned that he hopes "betas will come more frequently now."

My fingers are crossed! I'll post back once I've thoroughly tested this beta.

Tim Dashwood · February 7th, 2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Kaplan

Tim-

How can you digitize the footage if FCP 5.0 doesn't support it?

You can use HDVxDV or DVHS Cap to capture the m2t stream directly from the camera.
You can use iMovie HD or FCP5's HDV to AIC capture to capture 720P24 without sound and then use Cinema Tools to batch conform it back to 23.98.

Shane Ross · February 7th, 2006, 05:14 PM

http://www.aja.com/pdfs/AJA_whitepaper_HDV.pdf

Tom Chaney · February 8th, 2006, 05:42 AM

Hi Tim,

You've got us anxiously awaiting your report of Lumiere. Per your suggestion I, and surely many others, downloaded HDVxDv and have been playing with it.

But I am waiting to hear your thoughts on the new Lumiere update to make, my purchasing decisions.

Has anyone posted a potential workflow for finish on Blu Ray yet?

Thanks for everything you post.

Tom Chaney

New owner of JVC GY-HD100!

www.tomchaney.com

ADMIN NOTE: Merged this post from a separate cross-post thread.

Tom Chaney · February 8th, 2006, 05:50 AM

Hi Tim,

I'm a huge fan of your posts.

I just picked up a JVC camera and I am anxiously awaiting your word on this update. Per your suggestion, I am trying HDVxDv.

We are starting a feature that we would like to deliver on HD-DVD in the future.

Any thoughts on workflow for Blu-Ray?

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Tom Chaney

www.tomchaney.com

Tim Dashwood · February 8th, 2006, 11:16 PM

They've just released v 1.6b6. Wow, I guess they have sped up the beta cycles from a few months to 2 days!
http://www.lumierehd.com/currentbeta_download.php

IT NOW SUPPORTS 720P24 OUTPUT BACK TO TAPE!

This is a big step forward for the product if it works. I will be testing this latest beta by the end of the week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Chaney

Any thoughts on workflow for Blu-Ray?

Stick with the workflow in DVD Studio Pro 4 for HD discs. Blu-ray will use MPEG-2 codec, HD-DVD will use H.264.
There are still alot of unknowns that I'm sure will be cleared up at NAB, but I'm hoping blue ray will be able to play native HDV m2t streams at 19.2 or 25mbps. If you are interested in the format war, check this out.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/hddvd_bluray.htm

Tom Chaney · February 9th, 2006, 05:17 AM

Tim,

Thanks for the info.

Seeing who, and how many, of the big dogs are supporting Blu-Ray, I can't imagine it won't be the winner.

I look forward to your thoughts on Lumiere.

Tom

www.tomchaney.com

Tim Dashwood · March 15th, 2006, 12:43 PM

I promised to report back here ages ago and then totally forgot.

The good news is that v1.6b6 actually works considerably better than 1.6b2 ever did. However, there are still some glitches.

My notes for v1.6b6:

Auto Increment now works!
Transport controls no longer "grey out" after capturing the first clip.
The Note field still will not accept any text.
I got an "Unexpected Quit" once during demux, but it worked the next time.
"Custom size" entry doesn't seem to have any effect on the converted quicktime, but it is a nice idea to have it there now.
XML seems to work properly with FCP5 now, so there was no need to do the 15-step Quicktime Pro process.
Output to 720P24 from any of the original m2t files works well.
Conversion of final edit back to m2t created a bad file that looked weird with the image shrunk to 1/4 size in the corner and then the rest was digital video "noise."

In the future I hope that they can add a LIVE VIDEO PREVIEW window, LOG & BATCH CAPTURE feature, and SEARCH buttons (FCP and iMovie can search on the HD100, why not Lumiere HD?)

Chris Neuman · March 21st, 2006, 09:45 AM

i just purchased and dowloaded the latest beta of lumiere hd.
i follow the workflow exactly like stated on the lumhd forum. everything work fine just that the final mov and or the imorted m2v files are way faster than the original. the sound is perfect and has the right speed.

we shoot on the jvc GY-HD100 and i us it to capture. we shoot on hdv 24p.
this is ment to be blown up onto 35mm so i need to stick to 24fps.

what am i doing wrong?

tank u so much for ur help

January 3rd, 2006, 10:06 AM	#106
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Moved to Lumiere forum from HD100 forum. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 7th, 2006, 01:53 PM	#112
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	New beta just released of Lumiere HD - v1.6b6 http://www.lumierehd.com/currentbeta_download.php They don't have a version history but have claimed "improved compatibility with Hd100 & BR-HD50," but from what I gather on their boards "auto increment" should work properly now, crashing during demultiplexing should be fixed, and it shouldn't crash when capturing over TC breaks. Frederic has also mentioned that he hopes "betas will come more frequently now." My fingers are crossed! I'll post back once I've thoroughly tested this beta. __________________ Tim Dashwood

February 8th, 2006, 05:42 AM	#115
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	Mr. Dashwood - Anxiously awaiting word on Lumiere Hi Tim, You've got us anxiously awaiting your report of Lumiere. Per your suggestion I, and surely many others, downloaded HDVxDv and have been playing with it. But I am waiting to hear your thoughts on the new Lumiere update to make, my purchasing decisions. Has anyone posted a potential workflow for finish on Blu Ray yet? Thanks for everything you post. Tom Chaney New owner of JVC GY-HD100! www.tomchaney.com ADMIN NOTE: Merged this post from a separate cross-post thread.

March 15th, 2006, 12:43 PM	#119
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	I promised to report back here ages ago and then totally forgot. The good news is that v1.6b6 actually works considerably better than 1.6b2 ever did. However, there are still some glitches. My notes for v1.6b6: Auto Increment now works! Transport controls no longer "grey out" after capturing the first clip. The Note field still will not accept any text. I got an "Unexpected Quit" once during demux, but it worked the next time. "Custom size" entry doesn't seem to have any effect on the converted quicktime, but it is a nice idea to have it there now. XML seems to work properly with FCP5 now, so there was no need to do the 15-step Quicktime Pro process. Output to 720P24 from any of the original m2t files works well. Conversion of final edit back to m2t created a bad file that looked weird with the image shrunk to 1/4 size in the corner and then the rest was digital video "noise." In the future I hope that they can add a LIVE VIDEO PREVIEW window, LOG & BATCH CAPTURE feature, and SEARCH buttons (FCP and iMovie can search on the HD100, why not Lumiere HD?) __________________ Tim Dashwood

March 21st, 2006, 09:45 AM	#120
Chris Neuman Tourist Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: luxembourg Posts: 1	720 24p lumiere hd i just purchased and dowloaded the latest beta of lumiere hd. i follow the workflow exactly like stated on the lumhd forum. everything work fine just that the final mov and or the imorted m2v files are way faster than the original. the sound is perfect and has the right speed. we shoot on the jvc GY-HD100 and i us it to capture. we shoot on hdv 24p. this is ment to be blown up onto 35mm so i need to stick to 24fps. what am i doing wrong? tank u so much for ur help

January 3rd, 2006, 04:46 PM	#107
Bruce Meyers Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Maldives Posts: 97	Ok I've asked many questions about the process of this TEMPORARY WORKFLOW but no one has been able to answer my questions. I'm sorry to sound so annoying but this is a very critical issue for me right now. Mr. Mullen, I checked your site and found nothing so far about working "double system" what does that mean? I'm surprised this issue has been tackled before, I have searched these forums for an answer but have found none. Is apple going to release an update by the ninth? If not I'm in big trouble. If this has been tackled before, please refer me to the post that explains how one uses THE HD100 to EDIT FOOTAGE REAL TIME IN FCP. I tried Mr. Nate Weaver's suggestions, and they didn't work out. Perhaps he could enlighten me as to his specific CAPTURE and workflow methods since he has proven capable of shooting editing and producing final products in this medium. Lumiere HD has not responded to my requests for clarification in their "CUSTOMIZED TEMPORARY WORKFLOW SOLUTION" FROM PREVIOUS POST: "This is getting me ticked, when I go to STEP 9: add to selection and scale it totally screws up the audio, I get this strange tremelo effect, is this normal? The regular audio file doesen't have this, the sound wavers in the add to selection and scaled version, how do I get normal audio? PLease explain this to me. STEP 11: 11. Open all digital negative movs and export to codec of choice in 23.98 (DV, 720 X 480, 23.98) to a folder called 'realtime_clips' How do I export these clips? Individually? Do I repeat steps 1-10 again anda again and again? Please tell me what to do! What codec is recommended?" The audio screws up when I do this. ADD TO SELECTION AND SCALE. I've done it dozens of times. I'm sorry to sound sooooo hysterical and needy but it's make or break for me right now and if I don't get this system up and running I've really done for. Please somebody, if this has been discussed in detail I will greatly appreciate refering me to a previous post, I have been unable to find this information in the forums. WHAT IS "DOUBLE SYSTEM" STEVE MUllen I checked your site and did a search but found nothing accessible about editing double system. Would you be so kind as to give me a brief explanation? What software am I to capture with etc. workflow whathaveyou perhaps I'm an idiot but I could not find this information on your site without ostensibly first buying your book. PLease help!!!

January 3rd, 2006, 04:54 PM	#108
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Bruce, Are you using Lumiere HD beta 1.6b2? Make sure you are by doing "About Lumiere HD" before demultiplexing.

January 3rd, 2006, 11:19 PM	#109
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Support for Lumiere HD is provided on our forum, not here. We don't check this forum very frequently. This is information which was provided with the email when you purchased the product. Many, many customers are succesfully editing HD100 24p with Lumiere HD and enjoy realtime in the FCP timeline. The solution isn't perfect, but it works. It does require however that you follow the workflow exactly. One small error will through the workflow. Simply try the workflow and post one question at a time on the support forum located at when you hit a snag and we'll help you: http://lumierehd.com/forums/ Finally, I always recommend to give yourself time to experiment with new technology before jumping in a mission critical project with workflows you haven't tested. This stuff is getting more and more complicated and intricate as new formats are introduced. The good old time of DV are gone. It generates too much stress on you and everyone else involved. So please, give it a shot and let us know one issue at a time and we'll help you through it. For instance. You mention using DVCPRO HD 60p but our workflow mentions DV 720X480. Were you able to complete the workflow with our parameters first before venturing into changing it? Frederic

January 20th, 2006, 10:39 PM	#111
Matthew Kaplan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: United States Posts: 60	Tim- How can you digitize the footage if FCP 5.0 doesn't support it?

February 7th, 2006, 05:14 PM	#114
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	http://www.aja.com/pdfs/AJA_whitepaper_HDV.pdf

February 8th, 2006, 05:50 AM	#116
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	Hi Tim, I'm a huge fan of your posts. I just picked up a JVC camera and I am anxiously awaiting your word on this update. Per your suggestion, I am trying HDVxDv. We are starting a feature that we would like to deliver on HD-DVD in the future. Any thoughts on workflow for Blu-Ray? Thanks for all your suggestions. Tom Chaney www.tomchaney.com

February 9th, 2006, 05:17 AM	#118
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	Tim, Thanks for the info. Seeing who, and how many, of the big dogs are supporting Blu-Ray, I can't imagine it won't be the winner. I look forward to your thoughts on Lumiere. Tom www.tomchaney.com