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General HD (720 / 1080) Acquisition
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Old September 20th, 2007, 05:15 AM   #31
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ok so the time has come to actually start exporting these HDV timelines and as ive been told in this thread as well, everyone seems to say the best method is to:

"HDV Clip import into Virtualdub, resize from HD->SD via Resize filter (method Lanczos3, Use Interlaced), export via frameserving or uncompressed temp file to Tmpgenc."

I have edited and exported the HD res mpeg, imported into VDub and resized, but I do not understand for the life of me what this frameserving process consists of. When I just saved the file from VDub as an AVI as suggested somewhere in this thread I was not too happy with the resulting quality of the DVD. It just looked SD to me. Could someone explain if this frameserving process is easy to do from VDub to TMPGEnc and if the software is free?

I'd be very greatful.

Thanks
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Old September 20th, 2007, 06:46 AM   #32
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The frame server is built into VDub and fairly easy to use; you have to first start the process by going into the auxiliary setup (auxsetup.exe) and clicking on "Install handler", then starting the actual software and choosing "Start frame server".

The resulting DVD will look SD because it is... well... SD. You have just thrown away 3/4 of you video by resizing HDV to DV. The method described above is sort of an interim solution while we already have HDV aquisition options but mostly standard definition distribution channels. You will have to go to BlueRay or HD DVD viewed on a 1920x1080 television set to get the full resolution of HDV.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 05:17 AM   #33
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Ervin,
Sorry i phrased that wrong. I'm aware the finished product is only ever going to be 720x576 but I meant it looked no better than it had of if i'd have filmed in SD mode on the same camera in the first place.. therefore making all the hard work after the editing process pointless...

Although I havent started frameserving or anything yet so I'm going to work on that today (expect some more posts unfortunately..)

Can I just confirm a query with aspect ratios. Is this correct:

1) edit in 16:9
2) export in 16:9
3) Import into VDUB and resize which outputs (via frameserve) in 4:3
4) Convert to mpeg using tmpgenc or mainconcept in 4:3
5) Tell dvd authoring software (I use TMPGEnc DVD Author) to convert the 4:3 mpeg to 16:9...

I had an issue when creating some test discs that one video seemed too squashed up so I had obviously tried to 16:9 it twice or selected letterbox somewhere down the line however this has only happened once and was clearly something I did wrong.

For now I'm exporting everything as HD Mpeg as well as SD Avi, will have to start converting authoring and burning in the next couple of days.

Thanks again

David
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Old September 21st, 2007, 06:42 AM   #34
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There is no such thing as 16x9 in HDV; in other words you don't have to set that because HDV is 16x9 ONLY. In other words, when you start an HDV project in PremPro, you don't even have the option to set aspect ratio. Although 1440x1080 is 4x3, PremPro makes the correction for display purposes only, so you will see a 16x9 image while the footage itself stays 4x3. In fact, the footage stays 4x3 all the way, only in your DVD authoring software you have to specify you want a 16x9 DVD as final product. I know it sounds confusing, but once you start actually doing it, you will understand.

The frame server does not make a difference in terms of quality - it only helps you with hard drive space as you don't have to store a huge uncompressed file that you don't need after the MPEG2 file is created.

5). You don't actually "convert" the footage to 16x9 - you simply flag it as 16x9 so the DVD player will interpret it as 16x9.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 07:01 AM   #35
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Thanks Ervin, I have worked out how to use frameserver from virtualdub to TMPGEnc and its running now... I'm sure I selected 16:9 somewhere in TMPGEnc tho so I might find that the footage is too squashed again. Am I right in saying that it is in TMPGEnc that I alter the field options? When I first add the clip it is by default set to lower field first but I change that to upper. and then in the advanced options for the output file I change from upper to lower fields first? This is after I export the mpeg2 at highest quality without changing the default field options settings.

Also when using TMPGEnc on the first wizard start up screen I selected PAL DVD 4:3.. is this wrong? I have only ever used tmpgenc to create vcd's years ago.

Thanks again
David
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Old September 21st, 2007, 07:10 AM   #36
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I am not familiar with TMPG DVD authoring, I only use it for the encoding part. You have to set both properties for the input/source clip and the output/resulting clip.

I think you should set it to 16x9 from the beginning but I also think (not sure though) you can change that when actually authoring the DVD; I know I can do that in Adobe Encore. I would do a short test clip and confirm.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 07:12 AM   #37
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sorry when i said the first wizard screen of tmpgenc i did mean the encoding software not the dvd authoring software.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 12:21 PM   #38
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Ervin... i think we've cracked it. Managed to get frameserving right. Cant remember exactly what I did with aspects but it seemed fine when I watched it. Footage is obviously not near to HD but its noticeably better than it would have been had I shot in SD...

Thankyou very much for all your help with this.

David
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Old September 24th, 2007, 12:47 AM   #39
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I disagree with using HDVsplit to scene detect. Premiere Pro starts to act weirdly (consuming huge amounts of memory and opening hdv-projects slowly) when it has lots of hdv-files in the timeline.

HDVsplit does synch audio way better than Premiere does in case of dropouts though.
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Old September 24th, 2007, 05:04 AM   #40
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yeah I don't like to use scene detect either.

Ervin if you havent deserted this thread I have another question after playing around with this process quite a lot..

With regards to field orders you said that when using my encoding software (TMPGEnc) I should specify that the input field order is upper field first and the output should be lower, however when I do this and burn the DVD also with lower fields first I get horrible jerky playback.

When leaving the TMPGEnc input and output to top fields first but selecting bottom fields first in the authoring software the playback is fine except for the first second or so when it is the same as the first jerky result. Almost as if it takes a second for the field ordering to kick in upon playback.

However, when I leave everything as top fields (TMPGEnc input and output, as well as authoring software) the playback is fine. However after what you said I am worried that I am somehow losing quality by doing this.

The only combination fo settings I have not used is input upper fields first and output lower in encoding, then author the dvd with upper fields first. But that would seem pointless to me going from upper to lower and back to upper?

If you get time could you give me a brief explanation of what you thought I should change from upper to lower when encoding as this seems to cause problems when burning. Remember I am using PAL video if this makes any difference.


Thanks again
David
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Old September 26th, 2007, 07:59 AM   #41
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I am really not sure what is going on in your case but I can tell you that until I sorted it all out I also got the jerky/jumpy images. Shame on me as I am originally from Europe, but I only "think" PAL is also lower field first... I'm not sure. So the method I described should be the same for you, can you confirm that PAL is lower first?

Also, I don't quite understand where in the DVD authoring process you have to set field order, unless you encode your footage in the DVD authoring program itself. The way I told you, you should already have the video files encoded to MPEG2 when importing them into the authoring software, so a new encode is not necessary.
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