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Old August 1st, 2013, 01:15 PM   #1
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I have tried the XH-A1 component to capture uncompressed 10 bit.

I must say, unless I am doing something majorly wrong, after all I spent to get the XH-A1 component to SDI to Shuttledeck to MAC to FCP, I notice NO difference in image quality at all compared to capture from the simultaneous HDV tape, in fact there is very slight but acceptable noise in the 10 bit. Anyone else try this? Either the XH-A1 component is NOT uncompressed, or the HDV off tape is as good a quality as uncompressed, which means none of this gear was necessary in the first place. Looking at the frames of both at 200% and 400%, there is nothing perceptible that would indicate a better key being pulled from the uncompressed. I tried all capture codecs on the Hyperdeck Shuttle, and no difference.

XH-A1, clip shot in 60i
Component out to Blackmagic mini converter (analog to SDI) by using
Laird Red One Camera 3G SDI DIN 1.0/2.3 to BNC cable to
Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 onto
Sandisk Extreme SSD 480G into
FCP

Sequence in FCP using uncompressed 10 bit
Then I capture same clip from XH-A1 tape, sequence = HDV1080i

I did make sure the 10 bit sequence is set to render 10 bit material in high precision.

Any ideas? THANKS!
Michael
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Old August 4th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #2
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Re: I have tried the XH-A1 component to capture uncompressed 10 bit.

Looking at page 97 in the XHA1 manual, it appears that component out with letterbox off gives you 1440x1080 (apparently, standard HDV) and with letterbox on gives you standard def. The XHG1 model can output 1920x1080 from the HD/SDI terminal.

I don't see uncompressed HD on the component output for XHA1.

If you lack the manual you will find it in the Canon stickies on this forum.

HTH.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 07:46 AM   #3
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Re: I have tried the XH-A1 component to capture uncompressed 10 bit.

Thanks very much for posting. I checked the letterbox setting, and it seems that is only "setable" in playback mode which is off the tape, which will be the compressed HDV in either 480i or 1080i. I had just taken the word from many on these forums that "component out on all cameras is always uncompressed 10 bit color". It would seem that is not the case. I just keep thinking I should notice a big difference in compression artifacts between HDV and this uncompressed, if it exists, when I magnify them a lot. I did a frame analysis of an HDV off the tape, and one from the component out (both frames from FCP in a 10 bit uncompressed sequence) and the color count in both images is very close, which indicates the color space is not different. If one frame were 10 bit color, I would expect the color count to be almost double on the 10 bit.

Thanks again, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. If you have any other thoughts I would love to hear from you.

Michael
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Old August 5th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #4
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Re: I have tried the XH-A1 component to capture uncompressed 10 bit.

HDV is an 8-bit format. I found no reference at all to 10 bit video in the XHA1 manual. You might choose to use a 10-bit intermediate codec for editing (like ProRes) after you have captured your original, to minimize loss, but you can't put in what ain't there in the first place....
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Old August 6th, 2013, 09:33 AM   #5
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Re: I have tried the XH-A1 component to capture uncompressed 10 bit.

Thanks for the reply. Yes nothing in the manual suggests 10 bit from A1. The concept is that HDV is the 8 bit format which is the compressed format put to tape, whether it be A1 or G1. It seems that HD on all HD cameras is always 10 bit uncompressed until is made otherwise, in the case of the A1 and G1 being 8 bit HDV, to fit on tape, and to make the files much smaller in general to handle while editing. But full uncompressed 10 bit is available from the G1 SDI and the G1 component, because that is what is there before HDV compression. So the same is supposed to be true coming out of the A1 components, before it is compressed for HDV tape. You don't even run a tape. The analog components have a live signal with no tape running at all. You still get the same camera settings direct from component. I am finding many who "say" they have captured the A1 component live in 10 bit, and it looks much better than the HDV on tape. I just either can't figure it out, or they are kidding themselves. I understand the 1440 limitation on the A1 compared to G1, but that doesn't really play a role in the compression.

Thanks!
Michael
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