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Old December 27th, 2005, 09:59 AM   #1
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HDV Distribution - the real issue

Okay, I was reading the thread about is SD dead, and no where did I see what I believe is the real issue. The folks I make my videos for really could care less about the "bits". What they care about is the ability to easily use the end result. So, this first means the video MUST have a menu structure!
Second, you MUST be able to buy a cheap player. Third, is CAN NOT be a computer.

So, what have I found so far. I have found no authoring s/w that makes a menu structure other than a DVD. I have found no player (I have tried the I/O data player and sent it back), that is reliable and cheap.

So, I do all my editing at the HD level, but always produce an SD output to use in my ReelDVD authoring s/w.

So, am I missing tools that meet the about must requirements?

Dave
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Old December 27th, 2005, 10:24 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Campbell
So, am I missing tools that meet the about must requirements?
Yes, you're missing the blue-laser HD DVD players and matching authoring software which should have shipped at least a year or two ago but are still held up in development quagmire and should finally ship next year. In the meantime, the most practical way to meet the requirements you list is to deliver a widescreen standard-definition DVD, which for most people is still plenty good enough. Just be sure to make a proper anamorphic widescreen DVD, and not a "letterboxed" one.
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Old December 27th, 2005, 10:38 AM   #3
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Even if HD-DVD or Blueray where shipping today, they would not meet some of the criteria. This is CHEAP players, media, etc. I did not buy any DVD stuff for 2 years until I could get a decent player for $150 bucks.

So, I never can understand the letterbox vs anamorphic. If I use the 16x9 presets, is this not anamorphic? If not, what does one what to change in the work flow to make it anamorphic? What changes in Ppro?

Thanks

Dave
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Old December 27th, 2005, 11:13 AM   #4
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In PPro a 720x480 16x9 image is anamorphic. When exporting from a 16x9 HD to a SD 4x3 PPro defaults to letterboxing. You are doing the correctly thing. If you don't know how to tell the difference, load you SD AVIs into VirtualDub and it will be obvious.
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Old December 27th, 2005, 11:33 AM   #5
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Thanks David, that makes sense, which was the only choice I saw.
I just see so many use the same words for different meanings, better to ask.

Now, I still want to try and author a WMV DVD with the MS java stuff, and see how it plays in my pc. Assuming this works, it is too bad no one has a DVD player that will play these discs. Then, I would give the disc, and player, to family.

Dave
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Old December 27th, 2005, 06:38 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Dave Campbell
Now, I still want to try and author a WMV DVD with the MS java stuff, and see how it plays in my pc. Assuming this works, it is too bad no one has a DVD player that will play these discs. Then, I would give the disc, and player, to family.

Dave
For those who were hoping that Microsofts' own HD "media entertainment centre and game console" the Xbox360 would play DVD+/-R disks with WMV9 HD video written to them... you're in for a BIG surprise!!!

Never assume that these corporations have the savvy to spot an obvious opportunity. Rather than make the Xbox360 an alternative for HD playback in a standalone device drive, M$ has opted to protect content with an internal drive that is "knobbled". Even the external optional Hard Disk is effectively useless for such tasks!!

One option offered by a Xbox360 owner who checked both the DVD drive and external hard drive functionality, offered the solution of uploading HD to the "marketplace" for distribution back to the unit's hard drive!! And all that is only theoretical... and I'd bet that if one could upload the vast number of Gigs in HD WMV9 to the marketplace, that M$ would charge the blazes out of you for the privilege.

Bottom line: M$ and it's single-mindedness have handed the opportunity of easy, affordable and universal HD distribution media and format to someone and something other than WMV9 and themselves. I doubt that Sony will be any different.

What a bloody minefield this is turning out to be, certainly when it should be easy, straightforward, no-fuss, just hand a client a disk for their XXX-player and everyones happy!!

DVD should have been a shining light of how to go about it... Oh no. Corporate greed shafts us all in the date. They are such children of unmarried canine parents... I hope they choke on the container loads of cash they're going to make from idiots like us!!

Does it seem like I could be marginally cheezed?
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Old December 27th, 2005, 07:28 PM   #7
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Steve, totally agree. This is why HD-DVD and Blue ray just may fail, like the fancy audio formats have failed.

Dave
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Old December 27th, 2005, 08:45 PM   #8
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Dave,

What was wrong with the Linkplayer2? Mine works great. It playes WMVHD or even the M2T files just fine. What was your problem with it other than the lack of a DVD like menu system?
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Old December 27th, 2005, 08:55 PM   #9
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Steven, it will not play burned single layer DVD's reliably, and it will not play burned dual layer DVD's at all.

Dave
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Old December 27th, 2005, 09:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Campbell
Steve, totally agree. This is why HD-DVD and Blue ray just may fail, like the fancy audio formats have failed.

Dave
The more I think about this, the more I sense the desire by the "main players" to keep HD content from small players - namely any one not a major studio or affiliate of the "major players" as locked out of relatively easy HD distribution.

M$, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Fox, MGM etc. etc are not so likely to be viewing the ease with which DVDs can be distributed with content that they can't control as being as good a thing as we (average Joe that is) do.

With the release of each new device that "should" make HD distribution the straightforward and easy thing we're searching for... a major stumbling block or an impossible for all but the biggest players to jump hurdle becomes evident.

I suspect the idea is that low cost HD/HDV camcorder owners will be coralled into personal viewing on their own individual systems of HD content, with the only distribution options being: take your HD/HDV material to service providers who'll have the "approved" hardware to create a distributable disk for you at a premium price, or bite the bullet and downrez/scale your HD/HDV to DVD.

It's highly likely that to make distributable disks for HD-DVD or Blu Ray, very serious monetary outlay will be required - thereby eliminating the lower end HDV camera owners/studios/users from a sizeable pool of content creators who could seriously affect the major corporations earnings. Anyone seriously believe they'd take the chance on losing income to the small guys?

Any individual who believes that these corporations are humanitarian organisations without agendas or market domination as their goals is in need of serious health care intervention.

Easy HD distribution may well be a pipe dream. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I'm not prepared to go and buy every new "promising" device just to find that clever marketing will always catch suckers...
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Old December 27th, 2005, 09:39 PM   #11
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Steve, I sure wish you were wrong, but. The technology is there, and could easily be developed but no.

I was involved with 169time company who made the only system that allows one to copy HD material. The company is doing nothing special, or illegal, but has anyone else delivered? The only system that used to ship was the panasonic STB and recorder but they just somehow decided to stop making it. Wonder why. :o)

Now, if 169time could somehow make a STB that could read MVW discs that the PC can read. They would have another killer product.

Dave
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Old December 28th, 2005, 07:57 AM   #12
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Dave,

It is a shame you had trouble with the single layer disks. I have zero problems with mine. I wonder if you just had a defective unit?

I have purchased quite a few for my customers and they all work fine on with my DVD-ROMs. But nonetheless, I agree that we need a new standard that will work for the majority of us, at a price that everyone with an HDTV can easily afford, using media that will not cost us a fortune to produce, that will hold a couple of hours (at least) of HD material at the highest resolution out there today (1080i).

I realize I am not the standard HDTV owner, since I own three of them. But I know a lot of people who own at least one that would be happy to pay for the next great toy.
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Old December 28th, 2005, 09:09 AM   #13
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I-O DATA makes a unit for JVC (SRDVD-100U) that will playback ts files perfectly. I have archived over 50 DVD-R discs so far, without a dropout. At approximately 29 cents per disc, you can fit 30 to 40 minutes of video on each DVD. The JVC unit pricing is still rather high ($379 street) for mainstream consumer purchase, but certainly reasonable enough for coorporate clients.
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Old December 28th, 2005, 09:59 AM   #14
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Steven, a group of us had purchased 3 of them. They all had the same issues. You can read all over the net the problem with the DVD reader they ship with the unit. (And, I think the JVC and I/O data has the same problem since they are the same based product.) And, since I make a lot of Dual layer DVDs, non of them play. All I got back from I/O data is their engineering team is looking at.

So, since my first need was to be able to play the existing discs I had, so I did not have to have two DVD players in my room, I sent it back.

Now yes, the machine plays TS files, wmv files, networking, etc., but these comments miss the whole reason I started this tread. There may be a few of us nerds who love to over look the limits of the technology, but, not the average person. I made a video in wmv format. Yep, it played great on the I/O data. But, was it useable? Lets see, I wanted to go to the video at the 90 minute point. So, how did I get there? I could let it run in real time. I could do maybe an 8x (?) FF, but no way could I jump right to the spot to show a customer. Now, I then broke up the file segments into seperate files. Okay, I had to stop each time and go back and find the file I wanted to watch. Did it work, yep. Would anyone want to pay for this? Nope.

So, I am looking to talk about how we can get tools that allows us to give a solution to a normal customer. And, if you can not push the button and jump right to where they want to go, I see that I am forced to stay with DVD format and cheap 15 dollar DVD players.

So, what are the solutions I can sell to our non nerd customers!!

Ben, how do you get to the 30 minute point on all your DVD-r's to watch?

Dave
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Old December 28th, 2005, 10:07 AM   #15
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