HDV Distribution - the real issue

Mike Schrengohst · November 16th, 2006, 08:44 PM

That is the best excuse I can see to finally get the X-box!!

Ron Haley · November 16th, 2006, 11:46 PM

With the latest xbox 360 software, and windows media player 11, you can now locate yout 1080P wmv files on your PC and play them on your xbox. I've done this across an 802.11g wireless network without a problem.
The only real pain was the conversion to wmv - using premiere pro 2 on a 3gHz P4, 1 minute of video required one hour of processing,

Ken Hodson · November 17th, 2006, 04:57 PM

A review of the $200 MS PC/X-box HD-DVD player.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=325

Shawn Kessler · November 19th, 2006, 04:52 AM

never mind wrong forum

Kevin Shaw · November 19th, 2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Hodson

HDV hasn't broken any new ground in these regards. DV cams shoot on mini-DV as well and the media player industry never adopted that format. VHS was the only real format that supported capture and media playback for the masses. The new mini-DVD cams that can be used in DVD players, are the only other example of media capture working with standard media players. Otherwise no cam formats have ever been mass media player compatible.

On the contrary, one of the beauties of HDV is that the edited videos can now be distributed in "native" format on widely available discs and players. This means we can deliver finished videos to consumers in the same format recorded by our cameras, and archive raw HDV footage in a playable format on mainstream media. That has significant practical advantages compared to shooting in any other current video format, at least until AVCHD matures.

Ken Hodson · November 19th, 2006, 05:51 PM

I disagree. The amount of people who own a HDV capable player is so small it isn't worth mentioning, and I don't see a mass migration to HDV compatible players in the future. Mini-DV decks have been available for many years as well, but no DV shooter would ever think of distribution on mini-DV. As I mentioned before, VHS and DVD are the only two media players ever to have mass acceptance, and may be the last.

Kevin Shaw · November 19th, 2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Hodson

The amount of people who own a HDV capable player is so small it isn't worth mentioning, and I don't see a mass migration to HDV compatible players in the future.

Time will tell. The point here is that there are now mainstream HDV-compatible players which are widely available for those who want them, which has never been true for DV. Plus there are several tens of millions of computers capable of playing an HDV file at 720p resolution, with maybe a few million capable of playing 1080i/p.

We could make a case that AVCHD will become prevalent before HDV-capable players are pervasive, but other than that HDV is currently a uniquely useful acquisition and delivery format.

Graham Hickling · November 19th, 2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

We could make a case that AVCHD will become prevalent before HDV-capable players are pervasive, but other than that HDV is currently a uniquely useful acquisition and delivery format.

Even if that were so, its a safe bet than an MPEG-4 capable player will happily play HDV mpeg2 as well.

And I don't really get Ken's comment - I mean, the number of people with ANY kind of HD player is miniscule right now. And when more people have those they'll almost certainly play HDV material (with a little authoring as necessary).

Ken Hodson · November 20th, 2006, 08:01 PM

The new HD-DVD or BlueRay players will play HDV? I have never heard that before.

Kevin Shaw · November 20th, 2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Hodson

The new HD-DVD or BlueRay players will play HDV? I have never heard that before.

As far as I know it's always been a stated expectation of both HD disc specifications to be capable of playing an HD resolution M2T file. If there's any reason they wouldn't play a "raw" HDV file I'd sure like to know about it.

Graham Hickling · November 20th, 2006, 10:56 PM

I'll try and find a link ... but my understanding has been that both MPEG2 1440x1080 and 1280x720 are within-spec for both formats.

Tom Roper · November 21st, 2006, 08:01 AM

HD-DVD will play HDV but it has to be authored into the format like you would with a regular DVD. There is no re-encoding involved so the process is speedy and lossless, but the authoring program Ulead Movie Factory 5 only supports 1920x1080 or 1440x1080, so 720p would have to be transcoded into one of those.

Whether this 1920/1440 limitation is just with the early authoring tools or a limitiation of the format specification itself I can't say.

What you can't do is just copy an HDV m2t file onto a disk and expect it to play in a HD-DVD player. It won't.

Chuck Spaulding · November 22nd, 2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Hardy

The latest firmware for this unit is dated Dec 27, 2005. I STILL have had no problems (except for a rather slow responding "open/close tray issue) and I'm completely satisfied with the JVC. I don't know how it would stand up to being used 8 hours a day, but for my needs (archiving .ts files) it works perfectly.

I can tell you about being used 8 hours a day. I have one installed in an art gallery and it has played continuously 24 hours a day for more than four months. The only time it stops is to change one of the two twenty minute HD disks.

This gallery also does custom picture framing and they framed a 42" plasma and hung it in the front window. It looks remarkable.

Peter Ferling · November 22nd, 2006, 01:07 PM

I'm getting the JVC for playback in our booth and event media. The fact that it can run 24/7 as you've stated is just what I need. I've used some high-end laptops for this, and after breaking a few and running into overheating drives and other issues, (not to mention uniformed users). This is a no-brainer.

Chuck Spaulding · November 22nd, 2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

I'm getting the JVC for playback in our booth and event media. The fact that it can run 24/7 as you've stated is just what I need. I've used some high-end laptops for this, and after breaking a few and running into overheating drives and other issues, (not to mention uniformed users). This is a no-brainer.

Talk about technically challenged, this set up is in an art gallery. The only incedence was a power outage, when the power was restored the JVC DVD palyer started playing automatically, but I had to tell them to turn the plasma on...

I'm curious to see how long the plasma lasts.

November 16th, 2006, 08:44 PM	#106
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	That is the best excuse I can see to finally get the X-box!! __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

November 17th, 2006, 04:57 PM	#108
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	A review of the $200 MS PC/X-box HD-DVD player. http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=325 __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

November 19th, 2006, 04:52 AM	#109
Shawn Kessler Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ofallon missouri Posts: 123	authoring prices never mind wrong forum

November 19th, 2006, 05:51 PM	#111
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	I disagree. The amount of people who own a HDV capable player is so small it isn't worth mentioning, and I don't see a mass migration to HDV compatible players in the future. Mini-DV decks have been available for many years as well, but no DV shooter would ever think of distribution on mini-DV. As I mentioned before, VHS and DVD are the only two media players ever to have mass acceptance, and may be the last. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

November 20th, 2006, 08:01 PM	#114
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	The new HD-DVD or BlueRay players will play HDV? I have never heard that before. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

November 16th, 2006, 11:46 PM	#107
Ron Haley Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Los Altos Hills, CA, USA Posts: 30	With the latest xbox 360 software, and windows media player 11, you can now locate yout 1080P wmv files on your PC and play them on your xbox. I've done this across an 802.11g wireless network without a problem. The only real pain was the conversion to wmv - using premiere pro 2 on a 3gHz P4, 1 minute of video required one hour of processing,

November 20th, 2006, 10:56 PM	#116
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	I'll try and find a link ... but my understanding has been that both MPEG2 1440x1080 and 1280x720 are within-spec for both formats.

November 21st, 2006, 08:01 AM	#117
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	HD-DVD will play HDV but it has to be authored into the format like you would with a regular DVD. There is no re-encoding involved so the process is speedy and lossless, but the authoring program Ulead Movie Factory 5 only supports 1920x1080 or 1440x1080, so 720p would have to be transcoded into one of those. Whether this 1920/1440 limitation is just with the early authoring tools or a limitiation of the format specification itself I can't say. What you can't do is just copy an HDV m2t file onto a disk and expect it to play in a HD-DVD player. It won't.

November 22nd, 2006, 01:07 PM	#119
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	I'm getting the JVC for playback in our booth and event media. The fact that it can run 24/7 as you've stated is just what I need. I've used some high-end laptops for this, and after breaking a few and running into overheating drives and other issues, (not to mention uniformed users). This is a no-brainer.