JY-HD1OU New Footage etc.

Chris Hurd · June 25th, 2003, 05:02 PM

Betsy -- come on downtown to the Entertainment Technology World show at the convention center this Fri and Sat, and play with all the camcorders including the HD10U all you want while talking to manufacturer's reps. It's a free event. I'll be in the Canon booth; please stop by and say hello.

Betsy Moore · June 25th, 2003, 05:17 PM

Thanks, Chris, if I can get away from work long enough, I'll do just that.

Michael Pappas · June 25th, 2003, 05:25 PM

I am not miffed at you Steve! Since I'm not able to see this camera on a HD monitor, I focused on the functions of the unit fully. I was sure it didn't go full manual from the first tests. So when you posted 101 I went and tested it again, Still did not work. Then you said your not doing right. And reposted the 101. In my mind, I'm thinking "wait I've ran cameras a thousand times more complicated, why the hell is this such an issue to figure out. Then I'm thinking, ok this is Steve, he knows far more complicated stuff then this camera. So I go back again, and as I discovered before, it still does not do it. Then finding out you have not used it enough to know either way, it was just frustrating that's all. I guess if JVC did it right we would have not had an issue.

Now that we know what the camera can't do, I guess we should figure out how to manipulate it to work right. I notice that the camera is more conservative to adjust from bright scenes to darker ones.

Michael Pappas

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pappas : I am the kind of person that believes in accountability, and it tells a lot about a person when that individual makes a mistake and stands up and takes account of their actions. -->>>

I'm very, very, very sorry that I said you "did it wrong." Perhaps if I had said you "might" be doing it wrong -- you wouldn't be so miffed a week later.

But pleeeeze -- adding a couple of paragraphs of "ain't I a great guy" after offering the wisdom "Steve you don't need a full testing system to test functions" is very revealing.

You too seem to miss the fact I was looking for readings under different lighting conditions. Now if you want to try that at B&H -- come on out and be my guest.

In any case, I was asking Paul. Not clear why anyone else felt they needed to get involved by making negative posts. -->>>

Steve Mullen · June 25th, 2003, 07:00 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pappas -->>>

I sorry to blast you. Actually I did say I was sorry -- but not directly to you in a post on one of the threads.

I wrote MC 101 based upon how it looked like it would work from the manual.

The manual that is wrong, wrong about this. And this is not a tiny point to leave out! And with everyplace in NYC charging a 15% restock fee -- you can't use the PDF to judge the product -- so you could be screwed.

My hope -- which is what I'm asking Paul to check -- is that the AE is always biased to keep exposure at 1/60th until the iris can no longer handle the exposure.

My thought is that you could check the speed, then check the F stop -- and then click the EC dial up/down. Every 3 clicks should be one stop. So -- although you couldn't read the stop -- you would know it. And, you could be confident the speed had not changed -- unless you clicked below 1.8 or 22.

This bias by a stop or 2 would help reduce the blown highlights. Andm hopefully you could lock or semi-lock this exposure.

Do you think this might work?

And, I am sorry.

Steve

Joseph George · June 25th, 2003, 07:01 PM

Betsy Moore, I saw the camera at Best Buy -- the HD1 model.

Heath McKnight · June 25th, 2003, 07:25 PM

Steve and Michael,

I'm hopefully going to pick up the camera (HD10) sometime soon and will also do the tests. It's hard to picture what you're saying without the camera in my hands.

heath

Betsy Moore · June 25th, 2003, 07:29 PM

Thanks, Joseph!

Betsy Moore · June 25th, 2003, 07:44 PM

I've called around to some of the Best Buy stores without success, do you happen to know which Best Buy has one?

Joseph George · June 25th, 2003, 08:56 PM

Betsy, I went to see some friends in San Diego and we just walked into Good Guys at Grossmont Center and there it was displayed.

If you want to get to the expo for free, you need to register today.

Sorry about the Best Buy mixed up. It was Good Guys, and you get a free DVHS deck with it.

Steve Mullen · June 25th, 2003, 09:41 PM

<<<-- It was Good Guys, and you get a free DVHS deck with it. -->>>

Which DVHS deck?

Price?

Does the Good Guys allow returns?

Michael Pappas · June 25th, 2003, 11:02 PM

Steve, I was told the default shutter is 1/30th. It should be 1/60th though. I'm hoping that I can get my hands on the camera to try out more. When do you think you might be getting the camera? I'm hoping there will be good enough work arounds to control the image.

Michael Pappas

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pappas -->>>

I sorry to blast you. Actually I did say I was sorry -- but not directly to you in a post on one of the threads.

I wrote MC 101 based upon how it looked like it would work from the manual.

The manual that is wrong, wrong about this. And this is not a tiny point to leave out! And with everyplace in NYC charging a 15% restock fee -- you can't use the PDF to judge the product -- so you could be screwed.

My hope -- which is what I'm asking Paul to check -- is that the AE is always biased to keep exposure at 1/60th until the iris can no longer handle the exposure.

My thought is that you could check the speed, then check the F stop -- and then click the EC dial up/down. Every 3 clicks should be one stop. So -- although you couldn't read the stop -- you would know it. And, you could be confident the speed had not changed -- unless you clicked below 1.8 or 22.

This bias by a stop or 2 would help reduce the blown highlights. Andm hopefully you could lock or semi-lock this exposure.

Do you think this might work?

And, I am sorry.

Steve -->>>

Joseph George · June 26th, 2003, 12:31 AM

Steve, The price is $3.5K with JVC $500 deck that used to cost more; I think that that's what the salesman was saying but I did not pay much attention. He was going to show me the deck, but I did not go look at it. I think that they have 15 or 30 day 100% refund policy but they had only the display unit and it would take a few days to get your unit from their warehouse. Nice place to buy stuff. I'm sure there will be some creative filmmakers that will buy the camera there, return it, and when they will be ready to make another movie, they'll buy a better camcorder that will be then available.

Paul Mogg · June 26th, 2003, 04:56 PM

Sorry I haven't been able to do any shutter etc. tests yet, I'm very tied up with work, but have emailed a bunch of clips to Chris Hurd this morning, hopefully they got through.

All the best

Heath McKnight · June 26th, 2003, 05:07 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Mogg : Sorry I haven't been able to do any shutter etc. tests yet, I'm very tied up with work, but have emailed a bunch of clips to Chris Hurd this morning, hopefully they got through.

All the best -->>>

Paul and everyone,

I should have my HD10 tomorrow, possibly Monday. I hope it's tomorrow. This has been dragging out too long.

heath

Paul Mogg · June 26th, 2003, 05:28 PM

In response to Steve's question, what it looks like is happening to me is that if I set the shutter to 1/30th, then go to lock iris to a setting it stays at 1/30th until there until the camera hits conditions that it determins require it to speed up the shutter.
Also, as I said before, my shooting so far leads me to believe that 1/30th is the ideal speed for the shutter on this camera, which gets rid of the jitter problems, not 1/60th as some are saying.

June 25th, 2003, 05:02 PM	#31
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Betsy -- come on downtown to the Entertainment Technology World show at the convention center this Fri and Sat, and play with all the camcorders including the HD10U all you want while talking to manufacturer's reps. It's a free event. I'll be in the Canon booth; please stop by and say hello. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 25th, 2003, 07:00 PM	#34
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pappas -->>> I sorry to blast you. Actually I did say I was sorry -- but not directly to you in a post on one of the threads. I wrote MC 101 based upon how it looked like it would work from the manual. The manual that is wrong, wrong about this. And this is not a tiny point to leave out! And with everyplace in NYC charging a 15% restock fee -- you can't use the PDF to judge the product -- so you could be screwed. My hope -- which is what I'm asking Paul to check -- is that the AE is always biased to keep exposure at 1/60th until the iris can no longer handle the exposure. My thought is that you could check the speed, then check the F stop -- and then click the EC dial up/down. Every 3 clicks should be one stop. So -- although you couldn't read the stop -- you would know it. And, you could be confident the speed had not changed -- unless you clicked below 1.8 or 22. This bias by a stop or 2 would help reduce the blown highlights. Andm hopefully you could lock or semi-lock this exposure. Do you think this might work? And, I am sorry. Steve __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

June 25th, 2003, 07:25 PM	#36
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Steve and Michael, I'm hopefully going to pick up the camera (HD10) sometime soon and will also do the tests. It's hard to picture what you're saying without the camera in my hands. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 25th, 2003, 09:41 PM	#40
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- It was Good Guys, and you get a free DVHS deck with it. -->>> Which DVHS deck? Price? Does the Good Guys allow returns? __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

June 26th, 2003, 04:56 PM	#43
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	Sorry I haven't been able to do any shutter etc. tests yet, I'm very tied up with work, but have emailed a bunch of clips to Chris Hurd this morning, hopefully they got through. All the best __________________ Paul

June 25th, 2003, 05:17 PM	#32
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	Thanks, Chris, if I can get away from work long enough, I'll do just that.

June 25th, 2003, 05:25 PM	#33
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	I am not miffed at you Steve! Since I'm not able to see this camera on a HD monitor, I focused on the functions of the unit fully. I was sure it didn't go full manual from the first tests. So when you posted 101 I went and tested it again, Still did not work. Then you said your not doing right. And reposted the 101. In my mind, I'm thinking "wait I've ran cameras a thousand times more complicated, why the hell is this such an issue to figure out. Then I'm thinking, ok this is Steve, he knows far more complicated stuff then this camera. So I go back again, and as I discovered before, it still does not do it. Then finding out you have not used it enough to know either way, it was just frustrating that's all. I guess if JVC did it right we would have not had an issue. Now that we know what the camera can't do, I guess we should figure out how to manipulate it to work right. I notice that the camera is more conservative to adjust from bright scenes to darker ones. Michael Pappas <<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pappas : I am the kind of person that believes in accountability, and it tells a lot about a person when that individual makes a mistake and stands up and takes account of their actions. -->>> I'm very, very, very sorry that I said you "did it wrong." Perhaps if I had said you "might" be doing it wrong -- you wouldn't be so miffed a week later. But pleeeeze -- adding a couple of paragraphs of "ain't I a great guy" after offering the wisdom "Steve you don't need a full testing system to test functions" is very revealing. You too seem to miss the fact I was looking for readings under different lighting conditions. Now if you want to try that at B&H -- come on out and be my guest. In any case, I was asking Paul. Not clear why anyone else felt they needed to get involved by making negative posts. -->>>

June 25th, 2003, 07:01 PM	#35
Joseph George Permanently Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 265	Betsy Moore, I saw the camera at Best Buy -- the HD1 model.

June 25th, 2003, 07:29 PM	#37
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	Thanks, Joseph!

June 25th, 2003, 07:44 PM	#38
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	I've called around to some of the Best Buy stores without success, do you happen to know which Best Buy has one?

June 25th, 2003, 08:56 PM	#39
Joseph George Permanently Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 265	Betsy, I went to see some friends in San Diego and we just walked into Good Guys at Grossmont Center and there it was displayed. If you want to get to the expo for free, you need to register today. Sorry about the Best Buy mixed up. It was Good Guys, and you get a free DVHS deck with it.

June 25th, 2003, 11:02 PM	#41
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Steve, I was told the default shutter is 1/30th. It should be 1/60th though. I'm hoping that I can get my hands on the camera to try out more. When do you think you might be getting the camera? I'm hoping there will be good enough work arounds to control the image. Michael Pappas <<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pappas -->>> I sorry to blast you. Actually I did say I was sorry -- but not directly to you in a post on one of the threads. I wrote MC 101 based upon how it looked like it would work from the manual. The manual that is wrong, wrong about this. And this is not a tiny point to leave out! And with everyplace in NYC charging a 15% restock fee -- you can't use the PDF to judge the product -- so you could be screwed. My hope -- which is what I'm asking Paul to check -- is that the AE is always biased to keep exposure at 1/60th until the iris can no longer handle the exposure. My thought is that you could check the speed, then check the F stop -- and then click the EC dial up/down. Every 3 clicks should be one stop. So -- although you couldn't read the stop -- you would know it. And, you could be confident the speed had not changed -- unless you clicked below 1.8 or 22. This bias by a stop or 2 would help reduce the blown highlights. Andm hopefully you could lock or semi-lock this exposure. Do you think this might work? And, I am sorry. Steve -->>>

June 26th, 2003, 12:31 AM	#42
Joseph George Permanently Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 265	Steve, The price is $3.5K with JVC $500 deck that used to cost more; I think that that's what the salesman was saying but I did not pay much attention. He was going to show me the deck, but I did not go look at it. I think that they have 15 or 30 day 100% refund policy but they had only the display unit and it would take a few days to get your unit from their warehouse. Nice place to buy stuff. I'm sure there will be some creative filmmakers that will buy the camera there, return it, and when they will be ready to make another movie, they'll buy a better camcorder that will be then available.

June 26th, 2003, 05:07 PM	#44
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Mogg : Sorry I haven't been able to do any shutter etc. tests yet, I'm very tied up with work, but have emailed a bunch of clips to Chris Hurd this morning, hopefully they got through. All the best -->>> Paul and everyone, I should have my HD10 tomorrow, possibly Monday. I hope it's tomorrow. This has been dragging out too long. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 26th, 2003, 05:28 PM	#45
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	In response to Steve's question, what it looks like is happening to me is that if I set the shutter to 1/30th, then go to lock iris to a setting it stays at 1/30th until there until the camera hits conditions that it determins require it to speed up the shutter. Also, as I said before, my shooting so far leads me to believe that 1/30th is the ideal speed for the shutter on this camera, which gets rid of the jitter problems, not 1/60th as some are saying. __________________ Paul