Hidden service menus? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > And Now, For Something Completely Different... > The Archives > JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U

JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U
All about the original single-CCD HDV camcorders from JVC.


 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 4th, 2003, 12:55 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya
Posts: 608
Hidden service menus?

I noticed on some other JVC cams (JVC GY DV5000) that there are hidden service menues to allow control of a great many things. These are activated by holding down certain keys while powering up the camera.
I'll bet there are similar menus in the JVC HD cameras.
I don't own one yet, but if I did, I would try a bunch of stuff while powering it on to see if I can find it.
JVC GY DV5000 has all kinds of stuff in there.
Lets hope that the HD cams have some stuff too.
Let the search begin!
-Les

ps: I'll trade 40 running min of 16/35mm 2K film scanning for one of these JVC cameras! No Kidding!
Les Dit is offline  
Old November 4th, 2003, 01:20 PM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
Interesting!

Check this out regarding hidden menus on JVC cameras:

http://www.abcdv.com/article/articleview/78/1/74/

http://www.abcdv.com/article/articleview/169/1/74/

http://www.offworld.com/dv500/troubl....html#firmware
Christopher C. Murphy is offline  
Old November 4th, 2003, 06:30 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya
Posts: 608
I'll bet the JVC HD cam has one lurking somewhere too. People should try powering up with all sorts of key combo's held down, it isn't that many possibilities and the rewards might be adjusting the ccd gain, and turning off/down the edge enhance on the HD1.
Who knows what else!

Who will be the first to find it? ;)

-Les
Les Dit is offline  
Old November 4th, 2003, 06:59 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chicoutimi, Canada
Posts: 334
Whoaaa.... That is very interresting and... well... unexpected. If we could only find a way to control both the shutter and iris... This would be... Goooooood.
__________________
Eric Bilodeau
video SFX,DOP
___________________
http://www.fictis.net
info@fictis.net
Eric Bilodeau is offline  
Old November 4th, 2003, 11:20 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Osceola,IN
Posts: 62
I been thinking all along JVC could fix some of our issues with a firmware change. Maybe this could be the ticket. Can anyone get a service manual for the camera. The secret code could be in it.

Mike
__________________
http://www.acdnow.com
Mike Eby is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 01:52 AM   #6
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
Well, Nathan Clapp found a secret service menu on the DVX100 so I'd be surprised if the HD's didn't also have such a tool. Let's see, how many combinations of simultaneous button presses are possible while powering-up?
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 11:06 AM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
I tired a bunch of combinations last night. Nothing seemed to work, but I was thinking today that maybe calling JVC and asking would help? You never know - maybe they'll hand over their secret code to unlock super powers of the JVC!

Hey, if cheap DVD's can have easter eggs...why can't $4,000 cameras!

Chris
Christopher C. Murphy is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 04:35 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 236
Whoa!

Quote:
and turning off/down the edge enhance on the HD1.
That would be sweeeeeeeetttt!

Troy
Troy Lamont is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 06:23 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 36
I e-mailed an enhancement question to the JVC service.
NO answer in a month!
There is a better chance to find the hidden menu rather than get an answer from JVC.
__________________
Andre
Andre Jesmanowicz is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 07:27 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 106
Hi,

I don't know why this isn't more of a focus for camcorder owners.

When you buy a car, you pay full price and (if you have the knowledge) you can get under the bonnet and tweak the engine to your desired taste - more economy - more power etc. etc.. With camcorders ALOT of the functions (edge enhancement, PAL/NTSC zone/colour Saturation/Frame rate/ gamma response etc?) have to be controlled by software and eeprom settings - ( see the 'custom presets' on the pdx-10/pd-150 and others) - but we have no way to access them and tweak them to our taste despite the fact that we bought the WHOLE camcorder, hardware and software included - and paid full price for it.

There was a big shitfight in europe over the enabling of the 'DV-IN' feature of camcorders that were sold with this feature disabled (something about tax laws and what-not, who knows) and the manufacturers won the courtcase - meaning it was ruled ILLEGAL for owners - (despite the fact that they bought and paid for the camera in its entirety), should they figure out how - (turns out changing a single bit in a single eeprom address) to modify their camcorder to accept DV in if they had purchased a model that was sold with that function disabled. That's a precedent that manufacturers would use to apply to ALL functions in their camcorders I'm sure.

Since some comcorders are identical in hardware, but sold at two different market prices because certain features are enabled on the higher price model, the LAST thing the manufacturers would want is the users being able to get in there and turn things on and off to their personal taste.

Most camcorder owners couldn't care less - they wanna shoot with what they have and be happy with it. But the 'entusiast' or semi-professional that buys a 'consumer' camcorder (much like the 'car' enthusiast, or 'motorcycle' enthusiast - or 'home entertainment 'enthusiast) who wants to try and get the best - or just something different - out of it, is prevented due the the secrecy that surrounds the eeprom setup in each camera - and how to access it. Okay, so you void your service warranty - big deal. That's the risk you take with anything you want to customize - but here, we don't even have the option.

I think there is a market for this that the manufactures are not hip to yet. What about making available certain 'firmware upgrades' - that you pay for - that add the extra functionality to the camera? You buy the 'film look' software that gives you control over frame rate, colour, gamma and edge enhancement response in the camera. You buy the 'multizone' software upgrade that allows you to shoot in either NTSC or PAL SD etc. etc.

Only 'enthusiasts' would buy the stuff - keeping it generally out of greater public circulation and ONLY those features that the manufacturer wanted available would be included in the software.

This is all doable because it exists on camcorders already - there are menu options for controlling colour and 'softness' and white balance point in the pdx-10/pd-150/mx500/ etc etc. So why not make this type of option available (purchasable if need be) in the HD-10 or others. You update your camera with the software and hey presto! Those functions now appear in the menu.

While it would bite to have to pay extra for functions - (or control over functions) that are already in a camera you paid full price for, most of us would do it, just like we do with filters and lens adapters and all the accessories that we get to improve our work. This would just be a 'software accessory'.

Are you listening manufacturers? There's money to be made here and I KNOW you care about that....

Best,

DW.
David Warrilow is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 08:21 PM   #11
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
I don't know about you, but I'd be really pissed off if I found out my JVC camera had hidden functions and they wanted me to pay to access them.

If the jerks at these companies can't make a good enough camera with great features the first time around and make profit...then they don't deserve our EXTRA money. I mean, come on...if I'm paying for a damn camera I want the best functions possible. If they keep them from me - I consider it fraud or false advertising. If they even mention something like "the best camera we could make" or whatever. I'd bet we'd be able to make a class action lawsuit....you can't purpously make a product worse, so you can scam us later. I don't think that would fly in court. The consumer has rights.

My 2 cents.

Chris
Christopher C. Murphy is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 08:24 PM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Posts: 1,315
Anyone know of any camcorder "hacking" softwarwe?
I wouldn't be surprised if full manual controlls are available, but just not enabled untill v2.0 ;>)
I'll call Neo.
__________________
Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.
Ken Hodson is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 08:44 PM   #13
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
Reserving such functions for the use of qualified service technicians makes perfect sense. The potential warranty service costs they might incur by people who "thought" they could improve their camera through such a menu could be enormous.

Manufacturers are not shipping degraded products that contain tools to correct deliberate malfunctions. That, too, would represent a potentially very expensive manuever with absolutely no return.

Looking at the DVX100's "service menu" it's clear that there's very, very little user-usable functionality in there. I'd expect the same to be true of any other camera's similar feature.
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 10:22 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 106
Hi,

Chris, I didn't say they were 'making the products worse' - and I didn't say they were shipping 'degraded products'. I simply said there is functionality and control available in most camcorders that the user has no access to. And Ken you're right - there are certain parameters that ONLY a qualified service technician should be messing with. I wouldn't try to do a brake re-line on my 4wd because I know nothing about it - and I'd be an idiot going in there a messing with - NOT knowing what I was doing.

But the fact remains that most camcorder functions - (based on how they're are designed, what goes wrong with them - and what is then fixed WITHOUT replacing hardware) - must be software and eeprom based. And the technicians and service personel must have access to these functions to correct errors that happen - e.g. excessive edge enhancement or malfunctioning white balance or colour saturation. These are controls that must be in there and alterable - and things that an enthusiast videographer would appreciate having access to.

They don't have two completely different assembly lines for PAL and NTSC camcorders containing different hardware - so that function must ALSO be software based.

Suggesting that the companies release software to allow access to these controls isn't that silly. Firstly they're not just going to give away the farm by letting us all turn on and off what we want. Issueing the software themselves has a built in quality control factor in that they write the software to be compatible with their cameras and limit it to exactly what they want to put in there. As I said, it could be marketed as 'software accessories'.

Ever wonder why a successive model of camcorder comes out with the same chip, same design, same everything - but only this one can do progressive scan? Or full pixel 16x9 off the same 4:3 ccd? Yeah, me too...

Anyway, it's one of those things we could talk about forever with nothing coming of it so, onto other things....

Best,

DW

P.S. You don't have to call Neo - just do a search under JVC eeprom Manager...
David Warrilow is offline  
Old November 5th, 2003, 11:38 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya
Posts: 608
JVC EEPROM Manager

I did some searching, and found info about a bit of software called " JVC EEPROM Manager " that alloowed you to see values and change values in the eeprom memory of JVC camcorders. It seemsed to be the rage a few years ago, and was popular for enableing the DV inputs on PAL cameras.
I have no idea if the same software would work on todays models, but it may be worth a try.
Doing a memory dump of the hd1 and comparing with the 10u may tell us what some of the values do.

The software talked to the camera via the 3 contact mini plug, with rs232 serial.

I don't have the JVC HD cam yet, and am still deciding which one to get. I'd get the HD1 for sure if I can turn down the sharpening.

-Les
Les Dit is offline  
 

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > And Now, For Something Completely Different... > The Archives > JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:14 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network