JY-HD10U vs. Canon XL1s

[Christopher C. Murphy]

I'll stand by my statement.

HD downconverted to SD will always be better than SD not converted. It's a mathmatical fact based on what a codec has to work with while calculating the new version. The more information available - the better the final image.

I did mention that optics and inner guts of a camera will play a part in the overall images of any camera. However, the fact is that any HD camera has the basics to do the job correctly.

Murph

[Heath McKnight]

As my friend Jon once said, it's also what you see on a high quality TV monitor. If one looks better than the other, go with it.

hwm

[David Kennett]

In responce to Som Xai's concern about choice of HD1 o HD10, I relate the following story.

First, let me say that I am retired from almost forty years in broadcasting and television production. Last summer I got excited about the HD1-10 after seeing samples here and other places. I wanted to see an HD-10, and asked the folks at Industrial Video here in the Cleveland area to call me when they got one in. In late June they called. I collected my checkbook and a blank DV cassette, and I was off to Industrial Video.

Upon arriving, I was pleasantly surprised to hear that they also had an HD-1. I put my cassette in the HD-10 and shot some scenes in and outside the store. I then duplicated the scenes with the HD-1. The lower resolution of the HD-1's viewfinder was immediately apparent.

We rewound the cassette, and hooked the camcorder (via component) to a Panasonic 50" HD plazma. I was not disappointed. It was obvious though, that the HD1 had edge enhancement that was a little more than I wanted. A comparison of shots of a STOP sign clearly showed black edges around the white letters using the HD1. The HD-10 properly displayed the white letters on the red background. I think the HD-10's enhancement is more appropriate for HD video.

It was too much! My checkbook came out, and the HD-10 came home. I began shooting HD, and learned to make do with the pitiful editing program that came with the camera. My computer monitor was too small, and I soon wanted bigger pictures. I took a cassette I had edited, packed up the cassette, camcorder, and the component output cable that came with it, and I was off to a neighborhood Best Buy. The friendly (and inquisitive) salespeople helped me connect the camcorder to a 50" Samsung DLP rear projector. I was happy. The sales guys were amazed. And I went home pleased. Another month went by and I repeated this procedure (at another Best Buy).

By the middle of September, I had weakened considerably, and a price reduction sealed my fate. I came home with a Samsung HLN5065W 50" DLP set. My TV viewing has been ruined. Old-fashioned TV looks so blah. I watched the Rose Parade in HD on New Years day, and even my HD-10 material looks far better than any standard broadcast stuff. I can never go back!

[Christopher C. Murphy]

Dave -

You are one of the lucky ones who have seen the light. It's amazing how many "DV" guys seem to give opinions on "HD" - when they don't even own an "HD" camera.

The bottom line from you and I (two owners of HD cameras and TV sets) -- is that HD rocks and that is that.

The HD10u is worth the money - end of story. Let's talk about something else...

Murph

[Yang Wen]

<<<-- Originally posted by Som Xai : Oh with the JY-HD10U, can I still use my Avid Express and Adobe Premiere Pro software to edit the footages?. or do I have to purchase additional editing software for it?. -->>>

You can only edit videos from the HD10U shot in its substandard DV mode. If you want to edit HD video from that cam, it's more ccomplicated and you are limited to the NLE you can use.

Christopher. Please show us something shot with the JVC. I'm amazed that after so long since the camera has been out, the only professional project I've seen shot with the JVC was the low-rez version of the Red Bull commercial. If the strength of this cam is in a studio setting, why hasn't there been more examples of it? Perhaps I just missed them?

[Christopher C. Murphy]

The files are to large to post - that's one reason. HD files are huge.

Also, watch Amercian Chopper - apparently it was shot partially on HD01u. You can also get the Jumpstart guide to see some down-rezed versions.

What you are asking for isn't really possible without someone going way out of their way - like sending you a produced DVD data disk with a finished short film or something. If you want that in full HD - you'll end up having to pay for it. It's work man...plain and simple. It's easy to down-convert and post little clips. But, not HD clips which are huge...and if you wanna see HD clips then get them from someone who has time to make something and mail it to you. My bet is that if someone has done pro work on the HD10u - they're not interested in spending time trying to convince others of the cameras worth. They are living it and not talking about it.

It's almost like me saying, "Go buy a camera." Are you going to do it? No. So, asking people to get you something that's not easy isn't really practical...like I said, there are HD clips posted, but they are small one shot clips. Why? Because it's the only practical way to share a clip.

Maybe someone will put up an FTP site that has gigs and gigs of produced HD material, but I doubt it...anyone?

Murph

[Paul St. Denis]

Frederic Haubrich has a commercial he created in HD available online
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18954
It is in 3vix format and Frederic says there are compression artifacts and green screen issues, I think it looks pretty darn good though.

[Heath McKnight]

American Chopper wasn't shot on HD1s, another show, probably American Hot Rod, was shot on the HD1 or HD10.

heath

[Mark Jervis]

The show you are talking about was neither American Chopper or American Hot Rod. But made by the same producers. I still can't talk about the show as it is still in the pre production stages but will air in a few months. I will keep everyone updated when I hear about the exact air date.

[Som Xai]

OK, Thank you for all.

This is enough information. I will go get it.

[Heath McKnight]

I still say go HD10. Too bad about the Broncos, btw. Denver is the place of my birth, though I've lived in Florida for 20 years of my life (I'm 28).

heath

[Som Xai]

Heath,

Hahaha...Broncos is always weak at the end of the season.

Yep I am going with the HD10U

[Yang Wen]

It's easy to down-convert and post little clips. But, not HD clips which are huge...

Ok fair enough, but going by your logic, down converted HD footage from the JVC would look much much bettter than SD footage that has gone thru the same process. So a sized-down version of work from this cam would suffice.(Like the redbull one) And considering that the same group who purchases prosumer DV cams are purchasing these JVC cams, and we see TONS of samples from other cams, I would expect the JVC owners to post their work as well. But we haven't seen much (at least I haven't) in this active forum, which suggests to me that good results is hard to come by with this equipment. Seeing how passionate the JVC owners here are, the argument that no one is going to bother their time to post any good studio footage is hard to believe. With th

[Christopher C. Murphy]

Hey, I've shot a few things and edited them...I'd post them if there were a place to hold a gig file. But, there isn't anywhere online to post gig files man! I know you're thinking that people who have this camera are not getting good footage, but I am telling you right now that I have shot some life-like footage with the HD10. I've got a shot from my backyard on a nice overcast day that was immaculate - I shot drops of water falling off leaves and my girlfriend and I watched it on my laptop. She said, "It's like I can reach in and touch the footage - it's the clearest thing I've ever seen."

That's coming from a girl who knows zero about video - and we OWN an HDTV that gets HDTV cable! The closest we've gotten to it - the PBS loop. She's said the HD10u I have shoots footage that "looks like the PBS travel stuff you put on". I've done "taste tests" with her - she says that the HD10u has given "better footage" than anything on our HDTV. I've got Monster cables, a line conditioner on my HDTV...it's top notch.

Granted, the footage I've shown her (quite a bit) is the best I've shot. It was lit nicely - all natural light was the best. The inside stuff was excellent, but probably suffered because I didn't light professionally. I've got an ok lighting setup - however, I plan to shoot something in my television studio at work. That's be controlled indoor lighting.

In short, this HD10u produces AMAZING footage if you light it right. It's been said 1000 times on this board. It's not an argument anymore. You are asking for someone to post non-down-rezed footage. Sure, if you provide a massive storage space...got a few gig FTP site? I'll post some native HD footage for you.

Murph

[Craig Jones]

...I would expect the JVC owners to post their work as well. But we haven't seen much (at least I haven't) in this active forum, which suggests to me that good results is hard to come by with this equipment. Seeing how passionate the JVC owners here are, the argument that no one is going to bother their time to post any good studio footage is hard to believe.

Don't know why you say that. People's failure to post things you'd like to see is not evidence that it can't be done. JVC owners here may are passionate, but I'd say their passion is countering blatant anti-JVC propaganda such as "You can only edit videos from the HD10U shot in its substandard DV mode. " What a crock.

Not all JVC owners shoot in a studio either. I've just received my housing for the HD10 so I'll soon be ready to test in my underwater "studio".

Incidently, Yang, I've had no problems editing HD footage in Premiere and Vegas.