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JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U
All about the original single-CCD HDV camcorders from JVC.


 
 
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Old February 12th, 2003, 03:31 AM   #1
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JVC HD CAM'S are to be released in Australia !!!!!!

Good news for those of us living down under. I spoke to the JVC Pro-line rep in Melbourne who confirmed that Head Office in Sydney expects both Pal versions of the consumer GR-HD1 & the JY-HD10U prosumer HD cams to arrive no later than September/October .

Although he could not offically confirm that the Pal versions would provide better image quality than their NTSC brothers , he did speculate that he had heard rumors the PAL versions [with a 25 frame rate ] would give a 5-frame GOP's as opposed the NTSC's 30 frame rate with 6 Frame GOP's - less compression = better picture . Also the Pal system provides for a larger range of
legal colours than NTSC .

So in short , it looks likely that if you what to shoot consumer/prosumer HD and make it look close to film , even before you touch it in post , then do it @ 25fps Pal 5-frame GOP's.
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Old February 12th, 2003, 04:28 AM   #2
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Any idea of pricing, and stores, i am in melbourne as well.

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Old February 12th, 2003, 01:59 PM   #3
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Perhaps look one over and give us a little review.
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Old February 13th, 2003, 03:41 AM   #4
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Yeh Zac,

The Rep in melbourne ( Hagemeyer handle JVC DV & DV Pro Line Products In Australia) gave me the Sydney Department Heads e- mail address. Unfortunately I have not recieved a reply from her regarding costs and availability . Her e-mail is :

delanye@hagemeyer.com.au
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Old February 13th, 2003, 12:38 PM   #5
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PAL version may NOT offer HD

Hi folks,

Glad to be moderating this new board.

The information I have from Japan is that although there will be a PAL version it will not offer 720p25 HD mode.

Why?

Because this camcorder was designed for consumers who are buying HDTVs in Japan, USA, plus Canada and Korea.

I don't know how true this is -- but I do remember that while widescreen PAL is popular in Europe, HDTV has not been adopted.

So, downunder, are you able to watch most primetime TV in HD?
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Old February 13th, 2003, 06:23 PM   #6
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G'day Steve,

We only have sports so far in HDTV, and each major network has there own way of showing it. Some do 1080i and some do 720p. I believe one of them does 1080@50hz. Really strange.

The selection of HDTV's are so strange here too, some are only 800x600 but sold as a HDTV whilst others will play everything under the sun. It seems the majority at the moment are plasma tv's but the pickings are slim, because the tv's have to able to playback EVERYTHING. We have some special import Sony Wega HDTV's that will play anything you throw at it, with around 20 connectors on the back.

All of our major stations are broadcasting in DTV already, but the strange thing here is going to be that cable tv is going to lead the way. There is a lot of internal workings going on with takeovers and a fully blown HDTV cable tv network is starting to emerge.

Zac
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Old February 14th, 2003, 09:35 AM   #7
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Hello.

That would be very bad if they did not release the PAL version with HD.
What would be cool though is if the PAL version had 50i and 50P SD and 24P HD, hehe.
On a related note, will there be a future 24P enabled version of it (the NTSC one)?

Best, Magnus.
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Old February 16th, 2003, 06:49 PM   #8
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Yes, what a wasted opportunity if this camera does not have a 25p or a 24p 720p version. How could JVC be so out of touch with the Indie community? This camera will surely die without 25p or 24p on it.
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Old February 16th, 2003, 08:16 PM   #9
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<< This camera will surely die without 25p or 24p on it. >>

I strongly disagree. These camcorders simply aren't intended for the Indie community... they're intended for the D-VHS market, as Ken Freed from JVC explained in another thread.

In my opinion, nothing has been hyped worse last year than the whole 24p/25p thing. I work all the major video tradeshows, and I've talked to a large number of people who asked about 24p and then admitted they had no idea what it is, or why they need it, or how they would use it.

The independant filmmaking community represents a very small slice of the camcorder market. JVC isn't losing out on anything by not including a 24p feature. In fact, Panasonic itself is releasing a non-24p version of the DVX100, and I'll bet it will sell even better because it will be less expensive and appeal to the majority of videographers who aren't interested in 24p.

So basically what it boils down to is, these little JVC camcorders don't need to succeed in the filmmaking market because they're not pitched to that market -- they're being pitched instead to the D-VHS market. Check out Ken Freed's posts; he's from JVC so he ought to know. Hope this helps,
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Old February 16th, 2003, 11:07 PM   #10
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<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Howdy from Texas,

<< In my opinion, nothing has been hyped worse last year than the whole 24p/25p thing. >>

1) The fact that there has been no massive outcry for 24p Apple software is an indication that shooting an indie is mostly a fantasy.

2) The claim that 30p can't move to film may not be true. The camera can output 3 ways: 1080i29.97, 720p59.94, and 720p29.97. Is there no way to get to 24fps from any of these rates?

We know we can make film from 1080i and 720p using pull-down.

Making films will be done with the camera. But as Chris says, that's not a big market.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 04:45 AM   #11
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Hello.

I just hope they reconsider and have 720P in the PAL version (it is filming in HD I want).
I think that could help somewhat in speeding transition to HD in europe too.

Maybe in the future we could get 24P and 48P only.

Best, Magnus.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 07:16 AM   #12
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>>In my opinion, nothing has been hyped worse last year than the whole 24p/25p thing.<<

Well, you probably should read more about film transfers then and motion artifacts caused by non 24p and 25p frame rates. In fact, go to this link (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dvfilmtransfers ) and see what DVFilm has to say about this camera, if you donít believe me.

>>The independant filmmaking community represents a very small slice of the camcorder market.<<

I disagree with you completely. While consumer level camcorders have very little to do with the indie market, the 3,000 dollar plus cameras, such as the PD150 and DVX100, have a Hell of a lot to do with ammeter movie makers. I just donít believe that they are more wedding videographers then they are amateur moviemakers, film school students, documentary makers, and professional indies. BUT, I donít have figures, so I canít say for sure.

>>they're being pitched instead to the D-VHS market<<

D-VHS? What is that? lol Actually I know what it is, but the thought of their being a current D-VHS market here in the US is just silly. People are still migrating to DVD, and HDTV sets are still rich man toys. I would bet you my right arm that there is a bigger indie market in the North American, then there are people with D-VHS decks.

>>Check out Ken Freed's posts;<<

Actually he might not know, considering that he told me that this camera wasnít even real in the first place (when JVC only announced it in Japan.)
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Old February 17th, 2003, 09:07 AM   #13
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Howdy from Texas,

<< Well, you probably should read more about film transfers then and motion artifacts caused by non 24p and 25p frame rates. >>

I'm aware of that. I'm not denying that 24p and 25p video frame rates are ideal for film transfers... no argument there. What I said was, in my opinion, the whole 24p/25p thing was overhyped last year, as it was pitched to all videographers. The vast majority of them will *never* transfer any of their works to 35mm film. Only a tiny fraction of produced video is ever intended for 35mm film transfer. The vast majority of it is intended for video playback, either by satellite, cable, tape or whatever. Therefore, they don't need 24p.

<< go to this link: groups.yahoo.com/group/dvfilmtransfers ) and see what DVFilm has to say about this camera >>

That group belongs to Marcus van Bavel, who is a member here also, and quite well-known and trusted by this community. Marcus runs a superb DV-to-film transfer operation, but that doesn't change the fact that only a small percentage of video ever needs to go to 35mm film.

<< While consumer level camcorders have very little to do with the indie market, the 3,000 dollar plus cameras, such as the PD150 and DVX100, have a Hell of a lot to do with ammeter movie makers. >>

Sure they do, but those 3CCD camcorders also have a lot to do with just about every other aspect of the entire video production market as well, not just amateur or independant filmmaking. I'm willing to bet that the forthcoming non-24p version of the Panasonic DVX100 (the AG-DVC80) is going to out-sell its near twin, the DVX100, because without the 24p feature that very few shooters need, it will be a lot less expensive and therefore appeal to a broader range of camera buyers.

<< I just donít believe that they are more wedding videographers then they are amateur moviemakers, film school students, documentary makers, and professional indies. BUT, I donít have figures, so I canít say for sure. >>

Well see, here is where you and I disagree completely, because I'm convinced that the number of wedding shooters alone greatly outnumber any of the filmmaker-types who are actually actively using DV in an equally serious capacity (which discounts a lot of film students -- when I was a film student, I couldn't afford a camera, but that was before DV). This is the sort of thing I do like to bet on, but not with right arms as stakes but rather a case of beer or dinner at a nice place or whatever. The thing is, I don't have the figures either, so I can't say for sure just like you can't. But I'm willing to bet on it! If there were some way to accurately determine those numbers. And what about the people who are both wedding shooters and filmmakers at the same time?

I am not dissing the indie filmmaking crowd. I earned my degree in film at one of the best film schools in the United States (University of Texas at Austin, 1991). What I'm saying is that they're a smaller slice of the entire DV pie than you might realize.

Don't knock D-VHS until it's over. These little HD camcorders are a sub-set of the D-VHS market, which was my point earlier. These camcorders are intended specifically to complement the D-VHS format product line. I will readily agree with you on your point that there is a a bigger indie market in North America at the moment than there are people with D-VHS decks right now. But that's not the point. The point is that these HD camcorders in question were developed specifically as extensions of the D-VHS line. It's not a fair argument to criticize their lack of a certain feature (in this case, 24p) when they were never intended for people who need 24p in the first place.

It's like saying that Chevy missed the boat by not producing a 4x4 version of the Malibu. They're not missing anything, and if you need four-wheel-drive, you can get it in vehicles that were meant to have it in the first place.

And by the way, Ken Freed knows these cameras quite well, he's the one who himself mentioned them to me as being "very" real at the New York DV Show. Ken will be the first to tell you that they're no longer conceptual cams, but ready for the market, and of course a very interesting deal indeed for JVC.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 09:24 AM   #14
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>>The vast majority of them will *never* transfer any of their works to 35mm film. Only a tiny fraction of produced video is ever intended for 35mm film transfer. The vast majority of it is intended for video playback, either by satellite, cable, tape or whatever. Therefore, they don't need 24p.<<

True, but movie makers like the OPTION that they can go to 35mm. Why would anyone want any future possibility of going theatrical stripped away from them? Especially since many DV theatrical films were never originally intended to be theatrical in the first place. Shooting on 25p or 24p is still the safest option for any fiction filmmaker, whether they go theatrical, or just DVD.

>>Well see, here is where you and I disagree completely, because I'm convinced that the number of wedding shooters alone greatly outnumber any of the filmmaker-types who are actually actively using DV in a serious capacity<<

You could very well be right about this.

>>And by the way, Ken Freed knows these cameras quite well, he's the one who himself mentioned them to me as being veryt real at the New York DV Show. Ken will be the first to tell you that they're no longer conceptual cams, but ready for the market, and of course a very big deal for JVC.<<

Ken definitely knows more about JVC then I do, but Iím skeptical that US reps for Japanese companies get the first word on product developments. As for JVC, I wish them good luck with the camera, but I know that I, for one, was once deeply interested in buying this camera, but not anymore.
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Old February 17th, 2003, 09:58 AM   #15
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Howdy from Texas,

<< True, but movie makers like the OPTION that they can go to 35mm. Why would anyone want any future possibility of going theatrical stripped away from them? >>

That's true, good point, but I guess it opens up a whole new discussion about the remaining longevity of 35mm film projection. I know that digital projection has been out for awhile, but I have yet to see a film projected digitally (Central Texas is always a bit behind the curve). As for myself, although I'm convinced that digital projection will eventually replace 35mm film projection, it's not going to happen as fast as some people claim it will.

<< but Iím skeptical that US reps for Japanese companies get the first word on product developments. >>

No doubt you are right about that.

<< I know that I, for one, was once deeply interested in buying this camera, but not anymore. >>

I think that once the realization starts to hit that these cameras are intended for the D-VHS market, then indeed some initial general interest will be lost (or perhaps for JVC's benefit there will be new interest in D-VHS). But ultimately I think it's still a significant development and it represents at least a step in the next direction beyond DV.
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