Upgrade Wishlist (updated with HD200/250 results)

Stephen L. Noe · April 24th, 2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ram Ganesh

thanks stephen - i've updated it...

Great Ram.

I have another few updates for your chart. The HD-100 uses the same 384 audio as the other two. Timecode is written to tape and DTE on the HD-100 as well. JVC targeted the HD-100 for HDTV production primarily.

Carl Hicks · April 25th, 2006, 01:45 AM

Hi Ram,

Thank for putting together the chart. Here's a few comments / corrections / additions:

The GY-HD250 will also have image invert. And, it will have time code in / out, and full CCU control.

Also: The included battery system with the GY-HD100 is not intended to be a permanent solution for a professional user - rather it’s a “starter battery.” Professional battery systems have been available for some time now for the GYHD100, so how about removing the “poor battery” part on your sentence at the top of the chart?

Also: The included 16X lens is an “entry level” HD lens,and it has proven in independant tests to be as good or better than the included lens on any other HD camera in this price range. Thousands of customers are making their living with this lens everyday. Because it uses an industry-standard bayonet mount, you can easily upgrade to a “high-end” HD lens. So, how about removing the “bad lens” part at the top of the chart?

Regards, Carl

Guy Barwood · April 25th, 2006, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks

Also: The included battery system with the GY-HD100 is not intended to be a permanent solution for a professional user - rather it’s a “starter battery.” Professional battery systems have been available for some time now for the GYHD100, so how about removing the “poor battery” part on your sentence at the top of the chart?

Unless that system comes as a standard feature I agree with the comment. The problem isn't the battery mount, its the batteries you can buy. I have created a 12,000mAH battery for the JVC mount. That capacity will last about the same as a 80WH Vmount. The problem is that JVC don't make or sell such a battery so you are forced to make your own or buy a thrid party system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks

you can easily upgrade to a “high-end” HD lens. So, how about removing the “bad lens” part at the top of the chart?

A high end lens costs over US$10K. Maybe you are more fortunate but I do not find it "easy" to earn that amount of money to buy the lens to upgrade too, and that is the reality of the camera. An upgrade is only as 'easy' as the affordability of the upgrade. Same goes for the battery system. Over AU$800 for the VMount adaptor without any batteries.

Stephen L. Noe · April 25th, 2006, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

Unless that system comes as a standard feature I agree with the comment. The problem isn't the battery mount, its the batteries you can buy. I have created a 12,000mAH battery for the JVC mount. That capacity will last about the same as a 80WH Vmount. The problem is that JVC don't make or sell such a battery so you are forced to make your own or buy a thrid party system.

A high end lens costs over US$10K. Maybe you are more fortunate but I do not find it "easy" to earn that amount of money to buy the lens to upgrade too, and that is the reality of the camera. An upgrade is only as 'easy' as the affordability of the upgrade. Same goes for the battery system. Over AU$800 for the VMount adaptor without any batteries.

Guy,

I wish you would have jumped on board last year. The HD-100 (and subsequent camera's) are a huge step from the the DV5100. It's like night and day between HD and SD. Are you considering any of the new camera's or are you holding out for a bigger CCD?

S.Noe

Guy Barwood · April 25th, 2006, 07:12 AM

I really wish I could have too, but alas children came first....

In the end I think it will work out better for me in the long term. We are still waiting for a HD delivery format to establish itself, more cameras and better options are becomming avaliable and I havn't lost any business due to lack of HD capabilities yet (I do list it as an option as I can always rent equipment).

It is also making me get closer to my 5 years life out of my DV500 I origonally wanted. Low light sensitivity with HD is also a problem for me.

At the moment I am more interested in something like a Sony A1 or even a H3, if only JVC had an equivalent. If I get something like an A1 or even H3 it probably means I end up going the Sony equipment route rather than JVC. As much as I want progressive, I also need a range of viable cameras to pick from, including cheap little cameras like the H3 to use as B roll, static cam etc and even to just play tapes for capture.

Hence why I am also dissapointed that there are no new JVC handycams at NAB even if it not the best show for such a release.

I tell you what though, if XDCAM HD supported a better quality SD mode (DVCPro 50 or better quality) and 50/60p capture in HD with a native 1440x1080 1/2" progressive block I'd start saving for it tonight.

I'm not sure where I will head. I am pretty sure I know what I want, when I will want it and what I will be able to pay. Unfortunately I know these will not meet nicely in the middle and I will have to compromise somewhere (time, money of features). One thing I do know is that I will levitate heavily to any camera that has native tapeless operations (excludes P2 due to cost). XDCAM and HDD are my preference.

Laszlo Horvath · April 29th, 2006, 01:03 PM

I had a dream last night.
JVC annaunced a promotion to rearly adapters of HD-100 users who bought the camera before April 23, 2006.
JVC will change the encoder inside the camera, and they upgrade the firmware too. All this for $2000. So this way we can record 720/60p.
They called the updated camera HD-150
Nice dream.... VERY NICE dream. But unfortunatly I woke up...

Laszlo

Tim Dashwood · April 29th, 2006, 01:05 PM

We can't take all the credit because JVC does have its own consultants. However, as we had hoped, it was confirmed to me at NAB that representatives from JVC consulted our wishlist thread for inspiration and implemented some of our ideas into the new 200/250 models. It looks to me like at least 50% of our most popular requests were added.

Some features we asked for in this thread that I know will be in the HD250 are:

BNC connectors
SDI OUT
Timecode IN/OUT plus GENLOCK for slaving multiple cameras
720P60 encoding/recording to HDV tape (also on HD200)
Image Inversion for use with 35mm homebuilt adapters (like redrock micro, G35, etc.) (also on HD200)
Studio 26-pin configuration (KY-HD250 Studio Adapter) with remote CCU control
Higher capacity battery included as standard (A/B mount is now standard on HD250)
RCA audio out instead of the 1/8" jack
4-pin XLR battery connector

There are a few suggestions that were not mentioned in the press release, so we probably won't know if any of these have been included until the camera's release.

LCD & EVF active at the same time option
TC Preset and LOAD SCENE FILE assignable as USER BUTTONS
Burn-In Visual TC on Video Output (this is really important to me!!!!)
PCM 48Khz recording in HDV mode (as described in the brochures as ProHD XE)
4x3 SD compatible output with letterboxing instead of anamorphic only
2nd set of zebra stripes for black level clipping
Denser built in ND filters.

Since NAB I have been thinking alot about other features I would love to see in the HD250 that cater to a filmmaker with a film background. Here they are:

20P or 22P frame rate (I undercrank these frame rates all the time on film for fight/stunt action and I think it would be quite easy to implement a 2:1 pulldown for 20P - I'm not sure about 22P.)
Graphical representation of gamma response curve as you adjust the settings. This would help people understand how the curve is affected as they make adjustments.
Film camera style shutter ANGLE mode (along with STEP or VARIABLE) that is locked to the frame rate. For example, 180° would be the default, and therefore 1/48th when shooting at 24P, but would automatically switch to 1/120 when shooting 60P. Other popular shutter angles would be 11.2°, 22.5°, 30°, 45°, 60°, 75°, 90°, 105°, 120°, 135°, 144°, 172.8° and possibly even 360°. I think Panasonic put something like this in the HVX200.
WB tweaking in 100K intervals. This would be a great feature that would negate the use of warm cards or cool cards.
ND filter indications in standard log format (ND3, ND6)

Guy Barwood · April 29th, 2006, 06:06 PM

I scored:
9: 4pin XLR 12v DC power connector (you missed this one Tim)
3: VMount Plate on the back as standard (well the AB mount which I believe can take a VMount?)

However this is on the 250 only, not the 200 :-(

On this:
"LCD & EVF active at the same time option"
Not just a mirror image though, but ensure we have some alternative display options on the LCD like large audio levels (aka 5000), or even go as far as real time waveform monitors (possibly even seperate RGB) and vector scopes.

Tim Dashwood · April 29th, 2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

9: 4pin XLR 12v DC power connector (you missed this one Tim)

Oh yeah. I forgot all about that. Now I can use battery belts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

3: VMount Plate on the back as standard (well the AB mount which I believe can take a VMount?)

I think they are only offering the A/B Gold Mount, which is completely different from Sony/IDX Vmount.

Guy Barwood · April 29th, 2006, 10:22 PM

Could you remove the plate and put a standard Vmount plate on it. I have only ever had VMount batteries so I am not familiar with how these plates and camera mounting points all fit together.

K. Forman · April 30th, 2006, 05:52 AM

Tim- Don't you think it's odd, that they had an IDX promo for the 100, but only have AB for the 200 and 250?

Carl Hicks · May 1st, 2006, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

We can't take all the credit because JVC does have its own consultants. However, as we had hoped, it was confirmed to me at NAB that representatives from JVC consulted our wishlist thread for inspiration and implemented some of our ideas into the new 200/250 models. It looks to me like at least 50% of our most popular requests were added.

Some features we asked for in this thread that I know will be in the HD250 are:

BNC connectors
SDI OUT
Timecode IN/OUT plus GENLOCK for slaving multiple cameras
720P60 encoding/recording to HDV tape (also on HD200)
Image Inversion for use with 35mm homebuilt adapters (like redrock micro, G35, etc.) (also on HD200)
Studio 26-pin configuration (KY-HD250 Studio Adapter) with remote CCU control
Higher capacity battery included as standard (A/B mount is now standard on HD250)
RCA audio out instead of the 1/8" jack
4-pin XLR battery connector

There are a few suggestions that were not mentioned in the press release, so we probably won't know if any of these have been included until the camera's release.

LCD & EVF active at the same time option
TC Preset and LOAD SCENE FILE assignable as USER BUTTONS
Burn-In Visual TC on Video Output (this is really important to me!!!!)
PCM 48Khz recording in HDV mode (as described in the brochures as ProHD XE)
4x3 SD compatible output with letterboxing instead of anamorphic only
2nd set of zebra stripes for black level clipping
Denser built in ND filters.

Since NAB I have been thinking alot about other features I would love to see in the HD250 that cater to a filmmaker with a film background. Here they are:

20P or 22P frame rate (I undercrank these frame rates all the time on film for fight/stunt action and I think it would be quite easy to implement a 2:1 pulldown for 20P - I'm not sure about 22P.)
Graphical representation of gamma response curve as you adjust the settings. This would help people understand how the curve is affected as they make adjustments.
Film camera style shutter ANGLE mode (along with STEP or VARIABLE) that is locked to the frame rate. For example, 180° would be the default, and therefore 1/48th when shooting at 24P, but would automatically switch to 1/120 when shooting 60P. Other popular shutter angles would be 11.2°, 22.5°, 30°, 45°, 60°, 75°, 90°, 105°, 120°, 135°, 144°, 172.8° and possibly even 360°. I think Panasonic put something like this in the HVX200.
WB tweaking in 100K intervals. This would be a great feature that would negate the use of warm cards or cool cards.
ND filter indications in standard log format (ND3, ND6)

Tim,

It was great to meet you and a few other HDVInfo.net people at NAB last week. Thanks for your support! And, thanks for the nice summary. I will be passing on the new "wish list" items to product management. I'm sure they will implement as many things as possible, keeping in mind the delivery dates that we are targeting.

One thing worth pointing out is that on the GY-HD250U; regarding power: It will definately have a 4 pin XLR, and it will have a provision for a direct mount of a professional battery system like Anton Bauer or IDX. I'm not so sure that it will come with either one as standard equipment. That has yet to be finalized. The user base has many people using AB, and many using IDX: We have to be mindful to serve both groups of customers equally well.

Regards, Carl

Tim Dashwood · May 1st, 2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks

One thing worth pointing out is that on the GY-HD250U; regarding power: It will definately have a 4 pin XLR, and it will have a provision for a direct mount of a professional battery system like Anton Bauer or IDX. I'm not so sure that it will come with either one as standard equipment. That has yet to be finalized. The user base has many people using AB, and many using IDX: We have to be mindful to serve both groups of customers equally well.

Thanks for clearing that up Carl. I was going by the line in the press release "The built-in Anton-Bauer battery bracket provides compatibility with the most popular battery systems for ENG." The line seems to contradict itself, but I think it would be best if the ability was there to simply attach a battery mount of your personal preference.
It was great meeting you too. We are lucky to have someone from JVC on these boards who is so technically proficient.

K. Forman · May 1st, 2006, 02:34 PM

Carl- Any word on whether the 250 will come with a lens?

Tim Dashwood · May 1st, 2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

Carl- Any word on whether the 250 will come with a lens?

The press releases are pretty clear that the HD250 for $8995 DOES NOT come with a lens. The HD200 at $7995 does.
Is this still true Carl?

April 25th, 2006, 01:45 AM	#77
Carl Hicks JVC America Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 516	comparison chart Hi Ram, Thank for putting together the chart. Here's a few comments / corrections / additions: The GY-HD250 will also have image invert. And, it will have time code in / out, and full CCU control. Also: The included battery system with the GY-HD100 is not intended to be a permanent solution for a professional user - rather it’s a “starter battery.” Professional battery systems have been available for some time now for the GYHD100, so how about removing the “poor battery” part on your sentence at the top of the chart? Also: The included 16X lens is an “entry level” HD lens,and it has proven in independant tests to be as good or better than the included lens on any other HD camera in this price range. Thousands of customers are making their living with this lens everyday. Because it uses an industry-standard bayonet mount, you can easily upgrade to a “high-end” HD lens. So, how about removing the “bad lens” part at the top of the chart? Regards, Carl

April 29th, 2006, 01:03 PM	#81
Laszlo Horvath Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: LaSalle Ontario Canada Posts: 289 Images: 5	I had a dream I had a dream last night. JVC annaunced a promotion to rearly adapters of HD-100 users who bought the camera before April 23, 2006. JVC will change the encoder inside the camera, and they upgrade the firmware too. All this for $2000. So this way we can record 720/60p. They called the updated camera HD-150 Nice dream.... VERY NICE dream. But unfortunatly I woke up... Laszlo

April 29th, 2006, 01:05 PM	#82
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	This thread was a success! We can't take all the credit because JVC does have its own consultants. However, as we had hoped, it was confirmed to me at NAB that representatives from JVC consulted our wishlist thread for inspiration and implemented some of our ideas into the new 200/250 models. It looks to me like at least 50% of our most popular requests were added. Some features we asked for in this thread that I know will be in the HD250 are: BNC connectors SDI OUT Timecode IN/OUT plus GENLOCK for slaving multiple cameras 720P60 encoding/recording to HDV tape (also on HD200) Image Inversion for use with 35mm homebuilt adapters (like redrock micro, G35, etc.) (also on HD200) Studio 26-pin configuration (KY-HD250 Studio Adapter) with remote CCU control Higher capacity battery included as standard (A/B mount is now standard on HD250) RCA audio out instead of the 1/8" jack 4-pin XLR battery connector There are a few suggestions that were not mentioned in the press release, so we probably won't know if any of these have been included until the camera's release. LCD & EVF active at the same time option TC Preset and LOAD SCENE FILE assignable as USER BUTTONS Burn-In Visual TC on Video Output (this is really important to me!!!!) PCM 48Khz recording in HDV mode (as described in the brochures as ProHD XE) 4x3 SD compatible output with letterboxing instead of anamorphic only 2nd set of zebra stripes for black level clipping Denser built in ND filters. Since NAB I have been thinking alot about other features I would love to see in the HD250 that cater to a filmmaker with a film background. Here they are: 20P or 22P frame rate (I undercrank these frame rates all the time on film for fight/stunt action and I think it would be quite easy to implement a 2:1 pulldown for 20P - I'm not sure about 22P.) Graphical representation of gamma response curve as you adjust the settings. This would help people understand how the curve is affected as they make adjustments. Film camera style shutter ANGLE mode (along with STEP or VARIABLE) that is locked to the frame rate. For example, 180° would be the default, and therefore 1/48th when shooting at 24P, but would automatically switch to 1/120 when shooting 60P. Other popular shutter angles would be 11.2°, 22.5°, 30°, 45°, 60°, 75°, 90°, 105°, 120°, 135°, 144°, 172.8° and possibly even 360°. I think Panasonic put something like this in the HVX200. WB tweaking in 100K intervals. This would be a great feature that would negate the use of warm cards or cool cards. ND filter indications in standard log format (ND3, ND6) __________________ Tim Dashwood

April 30th, 2006, 05:52 AM	#86
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Tim- Don't you think it's odd, that they had an IDX promo for the 100, but only have AB for the 200 and 250? __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

May 1st, 2006, 02:34 PM	#89
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Carl- Any word on whether the 250 will come with a lens? __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

April 25th, 2006, 07:12 AM	#80
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	I really wish I could have too, but alas children came first.... In the end I think it will work out better for me in the long term. We are still waiting for a HD delivery format to establish itself, more cameras and better options are becomming avaliable and I havn't lost any business due to lack of HD capabilities yet (I do list it as an option as I can always rent equipment). It is also making me get closer to my 5 years life out of my DV500 I origonally wanted. Low light sensitivity with HD is also a problem for me. At the moment I am more interested in something like a Sony A1 or even a H3, if only JVC had an equivalent. If I get something like an A1 or even H3 it probably means I end up going the Sony equipment route rather than JVC. As much as I want progressive, I also need a range of viable cameras to pick from, including cheap little cameras like the H3 to use as B roll, static cam etc and even to just play tapes for capture. Hence why I am also dissapointed that there are no new JVC handycams at NAB even if it not the best show for such a release. I tell you what though, if XDCAM HD supported a better quality SD mode (DVCPro 50 or better quality) and 50/60p capture in HD with a native 1440x1080 1/2" progressive block I'd start saving for it tonight. I'm not sure where I will head. I am pretty sure I know what I want, when I will want it and what I will be able to pay. Unfortunately I know these will not meet nicely in the middle and I will have to compromise somewhere (time, money of features). One thing I do know is that I will levitate heavily to any camera that has native tapeless operations (excludes P2 due to cost). XDCAM and HDD are my preference.

April 29th, 2006, 06:06 PM	#83
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	I scored: 9: 4pin XLR 12v DC power connector (you missed this one Tim) 3: VMount Plate on the back as standard (well the AB mount which I believe can take a VMount?) However this is on the 250 only, not the 200 :-( On this: "LCD & EVF active at the same time option" Not just a mirror image though, but ensure we have some alternative display options on the LCD like large audio levels (aka 5000), or even go as far as real time waveform monitors (possibly even seperate RGB) and vector scopes.

April 29th, 2006, 10:22 PM	#85
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Could you remove the plate and put a standard Vmount plate on it. I have only ever had VMount batteries so I am not familiar with how these plates and camera mounting points all fit together.