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Old May 12th, 2006, 02:25 PM   #1
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Recording on HD100 ?

Well, What all frame rates cam i record video

In HDV mode - 24 frames per second emulating the juddery film motion look
In HDV mode - 25 frames per second

In DV mode - 24 frames per second emulating the juddery film motion look
In DV mode - 25 frames per second ( I am particularly looking for the standard 25frames per second recording as I also do weddings where my clients might not like the juddery 24fps type look.)

Insight awaited !!!
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Old May 12th, 2006, 02:29 PM   #2
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If HD100 does 25 & 24 fps then whats seesm to be diff in HD100/200/250...confused !!!
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Old May 12th, 2006, 03:26 PM   #3
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I'm assuming you're using the HD100 in a region that uses the PAL TV standard?

The HD200/250 will be able to do full progressive 50 fps for the 720p50 HD standard in your country, or for downconversion into 576i50 for SD broadcast.

I would not recommend recording at 24p when your target is a PAL device, since films in your country are simply sped up to 25 fps for PAL viewing anyway.
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Old May 12th, 2006, 11:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen
I'm assuming you're using the HD100 in a region that uses the PAL TV standard?

The HD200/250 will be able to do full progressive 50 fps for the 720p50 HD standard in your country, or for downconversion into 576i50 for SD broadcast.

I would not recommend recording at 24p when your target is a PAL device, since films in your country are simply sped up to 25 fps for PAL viewing anyway.
I forgot to mention or Add the E to the model, I intend to buy HD101E (I/O). In case of that Will i be able to shoot 25fps for PAL DVD & 24fps for my features which gets blown up to 35mm. I am not sure on the feature of HD101E so i thought to consult the users ... What would be a full progressive 50fps (fields or frames ps) ???
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Old May 13th, 2006, 02:59 AM   #5
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When we talk about progressive scan, we're talking in frames per second, interlaced would be fields. 576i50 would be 50 interlaced fields at PAL resolution, 720p50 would be 50 progressive frames in high definition, and will probably be the most common HD standard in PAL countries, like 720p60 is in NTSC countries.

The HD10x can't shoot 50 frames per second, which is a major limitation if you intend to put the footage on broadcast TV in HD. The HD20x, however, will shoot 50 fps, which even if you aren't aiming at broadcast TV, allows you to create slow-motion effects by slowing the frame rate down in post. That is the major difference between the 10x and 20x.
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Old May 13th, 2006, 01:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen
I would not recommend recording at 24p when your target is a PAL device, since films in your country are simply sped up to 25 fps for PAL viewing anyway.
So if im using the PAL camera and intend to show on a PAL tv, you should shoot in 25 rather than 24p? even if you want the film look?
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Old May 13th, 2006, 02:18 PM   #7
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Yes, 25 fps is close enough to 24 fps that it will make just about zero difference, and the 1 fps speedup causes so many headaches in the end it's just not worth it. Determining total running length is a pain because you have to factor in the speedup (particularly nasty because almost everything that ends up on TV is time sensitive down to the second). Audio becomes a problem because it either gets shifted up in pitch or you have to apply sophisticated sound processing to it that takes a long time and can still end up sounding weird in the end.
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Old May 14th, 2006, 02:54 AM   #8
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Well, the JVC site states for HD100 shooting in 25p that mneans i am able to shoot at 25frames per second ???
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Old May 14th, 2006, 04:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankim Jain
Well, the JVC site states for HD100 shooting in 25p that mneans i am able to shoot at 25frames per second ???
Yes, that is what 25p means.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 03:24 AM   #10
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Stephan, I dont get your point, where JVC states that HD100 shoots 25p (25frames per second) you too agred on that but you had previously written

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen
When we talk about progressive scan, we're talking in frames per second, interlaced would be fields. 576i50 would be 50 interlaced fields at PAL resolution, 720p50 would be 50 progressive frames in high definition, and will probably be the most common HD standard in PAL countries, like 720p60 is in NTSC countries.

The HD10x can't shoot 50 frames per second, which is a major limitation if you intend to put the footage on broadcast TV in HD. The HD20x, however, will shoot 50 fps, which even if you aren't aiming at broadcast TV, allows you to create slow-motion effects by slowing the frame rate down in post. That is the major difference between the 10x and 20x.
Pl clarify as I need to buy that camera to shoot & emulate the motion look of a film at 24fps both ionm HDV & SD recording mode but in SD terrain I desire to shoot wedding & events at 25fps that will give a smooth motion like video.

Awaiting to get my confusioen ooops looks like m seriously confused @!@
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Old May 15th, 2006, 05:13 AM   #11
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With the 100E/101E you can shoot-

25 frames per second in progressive mode in both HD and SD.
Usually referred to as 25p. This is the most useful one for Film-style video work for us PAL users, its broadcast, tape and DVD compatible.

For film tranfer you can shoot at 24 frames progressive, known as 24p. Combined with a 1/48th shutter this is the 100% Film Motion, but really is only useful for actual output to film for those of us in PAL-land.
NTSC users seeking the "Film-Motion Look" find this more useful since for them TV runs at 30 frames per second (interlaced at 60 fields) which look noticably different from 24 or 25.

Fitting 24 frames into 30 introduces pull-down rates and so on and at present limited NLE compatibility depending on your platform. So a PAL person ya don't wanna go there unless you really have to.

You can also shoot 25 frames per second Interlaced which is also known as 50i because 50 fields make up the 25 frames.
This is the normal format for PAL. This is the one that give you the Smooth "Video Motion"

You can also shoot 50 frame progressive SD in mpeg format to tape for slo-mo effects. or 50p in HD via the analog outputs only on the 10 series models.

Bottom line:

IN SD
25p for Film-Style TV drama
25/50i (interlaced at 50 Fields) for "Reality" news style or weddings/events.

IN HD
25p Film- Style only

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Old May 15th, 2006, 08:24 PM   #12
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It's best if you think of video not as 25 frames per second, but rather as 50 fields per second. While two fields make up a complete frame, the two fields are separated in time, giving the illusion of a much higher frame rate. The HD100 records 25 progressive frames per second when it's in HD mode. These are not interlaced frames giving the illusion of 50 images per second, but 25 simple progressive frames.

Now, to clear up your other misconception, there is absolutely, positively, no visible difference between 24 and 25 frames per second. What you think of as the "video look" comes from video's rate of 50 fields per second. When you are shooting progressive 25 fps as with the HD100, you do not end up with video's smooth motion because you are taking 25 motion samples per second instead of 50. In fact, when you watch a film on video or on television, it has been sped up to 25 frames per second in order to be compatible with your television standard. So in fact in the end there is no difference at all, except material that has been shot at 24 frames per second must undergo a great deal of destructive processing in order to appear on your TV in the end. This is why I recommend shooting at 25 frames per second in a region that uses the PAL video standard.

I don't think I can be much clearer than this. If you still don't understand, I think you should abandon the idea of shooting "filmlike" footage and consider a less complicated camera.
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Old May 16th, 2006, 12:28 AM   #13
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thx.

Hi Stephan, Thx so much for clearing my doubts on the subject, I got quite confused when i overlooked at the major diff of HD100 recording in progressive frames (both HDV or SD mode).

Perhaps I would shoot at 25p mode in SD mode so that I may be able to edit & deliver on DVD. You are right it seems to be a rather complicated camera when i compare it my present arsenal of Panny DV200, Sony DSR400 & JVCGYDV5000 all of which are shooting in interlaced format. Since I havent ever shot or seen any progressive shoot so i was much amused on the visual appeal of the progressive shoot in 25p !!! I was all the time wondering of i were using HD101E in 25p in DV mode than also i might face the motion judder ... which might not be liked by quite a few of my clients...

Thx.


Stephan Ahonen wrote--------It's best if you think of video not as 25 frames per second, but rather as 50 fields per second. While two fields make up a complete frame, the two fields are separated in time, giving the illusion of a much higher frame rate. The HD100 records 25 progressive frames per second when it's in HD mode. These are not interlaced frames giving the illusion of 50 images per second, but 25 simple progressive frames.

Now, to clear up your other misconception, there is absolutely, positively, no visible difference between 24 and 25 frames per second. What you think of as the "video look" comes from video's rate of 50 fields per second. When you are shooting progressive 25 fps as with the HD100, you do not end up with video's smooth motion because you are taking 25 motion samples per second instead of 50. In fact, when you watch a film on video or on television, it has been sped up to 25 frames per second in order to be compatible with your television standard. So in fact in the end there is no difference at all, except material that has been shot at 24 frames per second must undergo a great deal of destructive processing in order to appear on your TV in the end. This is why I recommend shooting at 25 frames per second in a region that uses the PAL video standard.

I don't think I can be much clearer than this. If you still don't understand, I think you should abandon the idea of shooting "filmlike" footage and consider a less complicated camera.
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Old May 16th, 2006, 06:44 AM   #14
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What advantages for capture and editing does shooting in HDV 25p possess?
There is more compatibility compared to 24p HDV right?

Thanks
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Old June 15th, 2006, 05:18 AM   #15
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So i have a question,

I have footage shot in 25 frames and 30 frames is there some how of getting it all to 25 frames.??? or am i best going to 3o frames, i would like to stay with Pal 25 frames.

I have tried to convert it in FCP is is ok but when the people are walking it is very jittery??

Any help would be good plz guys.

rob.
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