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Old September 9th, 2006, 04:07 PM   #1
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hd100 white balance advice needed

Hi there,

I just shot some footage at a wedding rehearsal and I was wondering if the footage looked bland to any of you guys. I want the picture to be kind of warm but I am really bad and inexperienced when it comes to white balance. I used the 3200k preset and I have been thinking about maybe raising it to make the picture warmer but obviously I don't want to be too warm.

Any tips would be great. I am also using Paulo Ciccone's tc v.3.

Also, is it wise to overexpose a little with the hd100?
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Old September 9th, 2006, 04:58 PM   #2
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why don't you warm it up in post?
the problem with this kind of things is that it's much more easy to warm a balanced frame than fixing an unbalanced one.

if for any reason you don't want to do that in Post, my advice is go easy on the red color (reduce it in the matrix menu) because the wales are becoming red, and the people looks like freaks.

another thing: be aware of the lighting changes, near the windows you will have much cooler color temp.

good-luck
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Old September 9th, 2006, 05:12 PM   #3
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You are in a mixed colour temperature situation. If you choose 3200K, then the skin tones will look normal, but the windows and anyone lit by them will look blue (especially on a cloudy day.) If you choose 5600K, the windows will look normal, but people lit by the tungsten/incandescent lights will be extra warm.

I would suggest splitting the difference at around 4500K. But how you may ask?
If you don't have warm cards, I would suggest using that quilted bit of art hanging in shot #1. Manual white balance to the very light blue in the upper left corner being illuminated by the tungsten light.
This should trick the WB circuitry and give you a white balance somewhere between 3800K and 4800K. This will warm everything up slightly.

There is another way to warm it up in camera, but you really should have a calibrated monitor on hand. You can white balance manually and then use the R and B paint to adjust the WB to your liking.

OR

You could just shoot as you have it and colour correct in post.


As for your exposure question... In the case of a bride with a white dress, I would set your zebra to "above 100%" and then adjust your exposure so that the dress is just barely showing any zebra pattern. A pet peeve of mine on digital wedding photos or wedding videos is blown-out dresses. Brides spend alot of cash on those dresses and they want to see the details!
You may also want to drop your knee down to 80% to give you more control of the dress hi-lights.
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Old September 9th, 2006, 05:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Camerini
why don't you warm it up in post?
the problem with this kind of things is that it's much more easy to warm a balanced frame than fixing an unbalanced one.

if for any reason you don't want to do that in Post, my advice is go easy on the red color (reduce it in the matrix menu) because the wales are becoming red, and the people looks like freaks.

another thing: be aware of the lighting changes, near the windows you will have much cooler color temp.

good-luck
Thanks for the quick advice

I could fix it in post but I need to shoot this out in one week for the brides's dieing grandma to see. I figured I would just try to get things as close to perfect while shooting.

I like your idea about decreasing the red in the matrix menu. I am trying to figure out how much to reduce but it's hard to tell using the hd100 monitor.

The shots were done with red gain at 3 and red rotation at 4. Maybe drop the red gain to 2?
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Old September 9th, 2006, 05:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
You are in a mixed colour temperature situation. If you choose 3200K, then the skin tones will look normal, but the windows and anyone lit by them will look blue (especially on a cloudy day.) If you choose 5600K, the windows will look normal, but people lit by the tungsten/incandescent lights will be extra warm.

I would suggest splitting the difference at around 4500K. But how you may ask?
If you don't have warm cards, I would suggest using that quilted bit of art hanging in shot #1. Manual white balance to the very light blue in the upper left corner being illuminated by the tungsten light.
This should trick the WB circuitry and give you a white balance somewhere between 3800K and 4800K. This will warm everything up slightly.

There is another way to warm it up in camera, but you really should have a calibrated monitor on hand. You can white balance manually and then use the R and B paint to adjust the WB to your liking.

OR

You could just shoot as you have it and colour correct in post.


As for your exposure question... In the case of a bride with a white dress, I would set your zebra to "above 100%" and then adjust your exposure so that the dress is just barely showing any zebra pattern. A pet peeve of mine on digital wedding photos or wedding videos is blown-out dresses. Brides spend alot of cash on those dresses and they want to see the details!
You may also want to drop your knee down to 80% to give you more control of the dress hi-lights.
Oh wow, I am definitely going to try that w/b trick. I think 4800 k might work nicely. That is some good advice about the blown out wedding dresses. Its hard to experiment during the actually shoot but today I am going try a lot of new tricks to see how they work. The only problem is that I can't change any of the settings of my b camera at the end of the isle. I will have an hour or two to play around so I will check it out to see how it looks. I think I might have to buy one of those marshall monitors after this tricky shoot.

I am shooting this wedding in a couple hours so thanks alot for that timely response.
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Old September 9th, 2006, 06:22 PM   #6
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This red gain is really bothering me. The footage is way too red like Shai was saying. I am afraid that the red will look even worse if I bump up the w/b to 4500k.

If I drop the red gain from 3 down to 2 or 1, will this noticably effect more then just the red gain?

I am using the exact True Color v.3 settins from Paolo Ciccone.
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Old September 9th, 2006, 07:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Nelson
This red gain is really bothering me. The footage is way too red like Shai was saying. I am afraid that the red will look even worse if I bump up the w/b to 4500k.

If I drop the red gain from 3 down to 2 or 1, will this noticably effect more then just the red gain?

I am using the exact True Color v.3 settins from Paolo Ciccone.
Your best bet is to just reduce the saturation slightly. You can always increase it later.
Paulo's settings are calibrated to a DSC chart and I think version 3 has tweaks to compensate for undesirable effects in skin tone. However, it does still seem to be pushing the saturation toward the limits of the gamut.

If you don't have a calibrated monitor on set, then I would not adjust any individual R G B gain. The LCD IS NOT a good enough indicator.
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Old September 9th, 2006, 08:28 PM   #8
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There are so many color temperatures going on in that room you're going to be screwed no matter what you do. I'd white balance on wherever you're going to be doing the most shooting (on the stage? Which actually looks fine the way it is) and tweak everything else in post.

The downside to "splitting the difference" with white balancing is it'll look bad no matter where you're shooting if the color temp differences are big enough. Too cool by the windows, too warm on the stage. Balancing for wherever you're spending more time means it looks better a greater percentage of the time.

Some ND and/or color correction gel for those windows would probably be the best solution to blue outdoor light leaking into the room. Thankfully you don't have to deal with the light coming in a door like in another recent thread.
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Old September 10th, 2006, 10:15 AM   #9
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There is always the "Auto White Balance" setting. He He!! I use it all the time, but don't tell anyone, I want to look "pro"!
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Old September 10th, 2006, 04:37 PM   #10
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Well I finished the shoot and hopefully everything looks all right. I will post some stills later today. That was the wedding from hell. A true boot camp experience. The preacher made everyone stand up during the exchange of rings and vows so everyone's head in all my shots so I am guessing this white balance problem was the least of my problems.

Thanx you guys again for all the help.
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Old September 10th, 2006, 06:43 PM   #11
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Were you set up in the back of the church or something? Did they not allow you to be up close to the alter?
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Old September 10th, 2006, 07:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Jaco
Were you set up in the back of the church or something? Did they not allow you to be up close to the alter?
I was first set up by the alter at the start but I moved my tripod to the position that was used in the first frame grabs I posted (next to the pews on the grooms side). I also had a camera at the end of the isle but someone obstructed it when everyone stood up.

I always shoot like that and it usually works out pretty good. Most of my customers do not want a camera man near the alter because I guess they feel like its an eye sore. Its funny because I never have that problem when I do Vegas or phoenix weddings, they usually ask me to set up at the alter. It must be because I live in a small town with alot of people who are not use to cameras. It's really dorky sometimes when I follow either the bride or groom from table to table at the reception, they usually say stuff like "I got a camera guy following me!" or "hey, we are on E Hollywood". They make me feel like I am being nosey or something. Its not like I am videotaping their event for myself!

Sorry, I will get off that soap box. I wonder if it's common to have a camera man right at the alter? Seems like I run into mostly tripod people who set up like I do.

I will be sure to post some stills of it once I capture the footage.
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