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Old September 19th, 2006, 02:24 AM   #1
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Best NLE for HD100,110,200,250?

After some careful consideration of a couple of HDV Cams, I've decided that the HD200 is the right Camera for me.... so in Early November I will be making a puchase.... but my question now is which NLE works best with JVC's new HD Cameras? I think I would like to be able to use all the options of the HD200, including; 24p, 30p, 60p. So, based on that info which NLE would be my best bet??

I currently use Premiere Pro 1.5 (Video Collections Pro) and my computer is a P4 2.8 Ghz HT, 2 gigs Ram, lots of HD space, etc....
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Old September 19th, 2006, 03:56 AM   #2
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I don't know which is best but Liquid is the only one that apparently can efficiently edit hdv natively, the others generally require some intermediary codec in order to get efficacy. although the new vegas 7 supposedly does well natively without an IC.

stephen Noe has put up some nice links to liquid tutorials.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 06:44 AM   #3
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24p

I use Edius 3.61 since I bought my first HD100 last September. It's rock solid, I'm very happy with it.

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Old September 19th, 2006, 09:59 AM   #4
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My System.

Adobe PP2 on off the shelf HP dual core w/2g ram. Working without a hiccup. JVC HD 100 native 30p no problem. Have not tried 24 P.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 10:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Luce
I don't know which is best but Liquid is the only one that apparently can efficiently edit hdv natively, the others generally require some intermediary codec in order to get efficacy.
Premiere and Final Cut Pro can both work natively on HDV.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 12:44 PM   #6
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Thanks for the response guys, i wonder though... how will current NLEs deal with 60p? i guess they should already be capable? i was looking at Edius before... any one have experience with their latest release? I'm also intrigued with Vegas 7... but perhaps an upgrade to PP2.0 might work just as well!
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Old September 19th, 2006, 02:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ladue
Thanks for the response guys, i wonder though... how will current NLEs deal with 60p? i guess they should already be capable? i was looking at Edius before... any one have experience with their latest release? I'm also intrigued with Vegas 7... but perhaps an upgrade to PP2.0 might work just as well!
Within a couple of works (or more?) Steve Mullen is going to have an in depth review of Edius. It might be worth waiting for to check out. He has already done a great overview of Liquid on his site/newsletter:
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/

I have a question similar to yours. I am doing a short that will be transferred to film. I will be doing basic cutting only, color correction and titles (probably with After Effects). There is no fancy keying, etc. I then want to export to a format needed for the best possible transfer to 35mm.

I have Liquid 6.1, Avid Liquid 7.1, Premiere Pro 2 and I have Edius 3 and can get Edius 4. Which of these with what workflow will give me the best possible video for transfer? (video will be shot 24p)
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Old September 19th, 2006, 02:57 PM   #8
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Vegas 7. nuff said. Most of the popular apps have fully functional trials. Try em all and see what u like!
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Old September 19th, 2006, 04:19 PM   #9
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Liquid already supports 24, 25, 30, 50 & 60 fps HDV in 720p, 1080i and 1080p.

You can edit film as well as mix timeline media content without a transcode and without a render. Liquid comes equipped with Magic Bullet II built in as well as Commotion FX and Dolby 5.1 digital creator. It works well with After Effects as well as has the most excellent Steinberg Wavelab functionality for superb audio mastering.

You have your choice of harware options or software only option. Software only gives you 1394 I/O and I/O of most 8 bit codecs. Liquid Pro brings SD I/O to the table (for BetaSP, Digibeta and DVCam) as well as SPdif audio and 5.1 discrete channel audio. Liquid ChromeHD brings dual HD-SDI and dual HD-component I/O to the table as well as SPdif and 26 pin tether.

Since you're going for an HD-250 I can imagine you're looking for HD-SDI I/O or are you going for the HD-200 and need only 1394 capture?

Click here for Avid's Liquid Family Page.
It has been a great marriage between ProHD/HDV and Liquid for almost 2 years. If you're looking for easy workflow designed specifically to work with HDV then you'll be happy you checked out Liquid from Avid.

Good luck with you're puchase and most of all, Have Fun.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 04:29 PM   #10
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Stephen,

First, If the final result for a Liquid edited 720p24 project is film, exactly what export format does one use to get the best (and desireable) video file for transfer to film? In short, how does one get the video out of Liquid and ready for transfer to film?

Second, is there any advantage -- when Liquid is only used for editing and basic transitions -- of Liquid 7 over Liquid 6.1? Will Liquid 6.1 give the same basic functionality for editing 720p24 as would 7 -- ignoring magic bullet plug-in, SmartSound, etc. that are available in 7.

Thanks!
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Old September 19th, 2006, 04:48 PM   #11
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Stephen - I second the above questions... Thanks!
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Old September 19th, 2006, 05:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker
Stephen,

First, If the final result for a Liquid edited 720p24 project is film, exactly what export format does one use to get the best (and desireable) video file for transfer to film? In short, how does one get the video out of Liquid and ready for transfer to film?

Second, is there any advantage -- when Liquid is only used for editing and basic transitions -- of Liquid 7 over Liquid 6.1? Will Liquid 6.1 give the same basic functionality for editing 720p24 as would 7 -- ignoring magic bullet plug-in, SmartSound, etc. that are available in 7.

Thanks!
Jack and John (aka Evil Genius),

You wouldn't use a video format for the output. Instead you'd export an uncompressed Targa Sequence. It's easy. For the audio you'd export audio only using the "AVI audio only" export using the 23.98 frame rate. You can do this for 2 channel or multichannel (8 channel represented by 5.1 surround plus the mixed down stereo equivalent of the 5.1 mix).

@ Jack, You'll need Liquid 7.1 in order to edit 24fps HDV without the work arounds we did in Liquid 6.1. You can do 24p in Liquid 6.1 but it requires a work around sort of similar to what the FCP group has been using. When Liquid 7 came out the need for work arounds was eliminated and now all the frame rates and TC work. Workflow is as familiar as DV workflow with any framerate available to all HDV cameras including the excellent XDCamHD (F-350) Sony has come up with. BTW-FYI Liquid works excellently with XDCamHD as well.

Last edited by Stephen L. Noe; September 19th, 2006 at 08:33 PM.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 07:27 PM   #13
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Stephen, thanks for the info... how does Liquid 7 handle realtime preview of 720p? would i need additional hardware to get realtime previewing of the timeline in native HDV?
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Old September 19th, 2006, 07:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ladue
Stephen, thanks for the info... how does Liquid 7 handle realtime preview of 720p? would i need additional hardware to get realtime previewing of the timeline in native HDV?
Here are your options:

Sofware only Liquid gives you RT 720p full rez via either VGA second head to HDTV (dedicated) or via 2 monitor setup (LCD or CRT).
Approx $400

Liquid + USB700 give you the same options as Sofware only and adds HD-RT preview downconverted to composite or Y/C (no component). This allows Y/C connections to studio monitors as well as BetaSP deck or loop thru to BetaSP deck and monitor/TV.
Approx $500

Liquid Pro offers the sofware only options and adds HD-RT preview downcoverted to SD component, CVBS or Y/C out to your studio monitor. This allows you to playout of HD timelines to BetaSP in RT without the need to downconvert with a costly render.
Approx $700

ChromeHD adds everything Sofware and Pro has plus HD component and HD-SDI out's to your HD studio monitor and HDTV as well as SD-SDI and component out to BetaSP and tether back to the switch and control room. There are 3 levels of hardware available for Chrome HD
Chrome Plus
Chrome Deluxe
Chrome Elite
Approx $3000 to $9000 depending on the hardware break out box.

In all of this the software is identicle and the only difference is the I/O hardware option.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 09:21 PM   #15
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How about on a Mac?

I can tell you one thing; using Avid XP with (JVC version of) HDV is a struggle. An example: an 8-minute edited HDV project with one stream of video takes about 35 minutes to get to tape via 'Export to HDV Device' and so far, every attempt using the HD50 deck ended with video that looks beautiful but has a number of hiccups (stutters of sort) throughout. Also, as far as I could find out, 720/30P cannot be combined with any other format on the timeline and cannot be downconverted in the application to SD nor transcoded to other HD formats (interlaced), except for DVCPRO HD. Record to tape has no TC setting ability, so the program just starts wherever near by where the tape happens to be cued up - that is after it clips a few seconds at the beginning (a blank filler has to be put in place before the video starts).

Furthermore, because of TC unreliability in 720P (Avid claims), the application doesn't support batch digitizing, hence, forcing you to capture on the fly. That has implications when there is a need to re-buid the project and off-line/on-line workflows.

What's really annoying is the fact that Avid has the technology in Liquid on PC but they are not including it in their 'higher' Avid XP systems. There is also no HD hardware available until Adrenalin with the HD expansion - which of course is very expensive.

Eventhough I love Avid's editing interface, I am quite annoyed by my recent HDV experience and looking at alternatives. Therefore; what would be good options with FCP in terms of real-time acceleration, harware cards and breakout boxes?
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