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JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems
GY-HD 100 & 200 series ProHD HDV camcorders & decks.


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Old May 10th, 2007, 01:57 PM   #16
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Just an additional comment: to show how much this red and green banding/splotching is effecting the WB, I will get anywhere from 3200K (looks different from the internal setting) to 3700K, simply by changing the f stop between wide open, f2, f2.8 or f4. I keep the exposure fairly constant with shutter, just below 100% zebras.

Unacceptable.

Gary
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Old May 10th, 2007, 04:49 PM   #17
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Unacceptable.
Gary
I agree Gary. In this case it really seems like something is wrong. The 17x works well on my HD200. Maybe others with the 17x on a 100 series can chime in. Your camera might need servicing - it seems that there are some updates and calibration that could help.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 05:27 PM   #18
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Sean, it would seem so. But I just got it back from JVC service in California, where it was supposed to have been fully brought up to the latest spec while in for another repair.

Before that I tried my 17x lens and the brand new loaner 17x from Fujinon on my cam, and a 200 at my dealer; same problem: each camera/lens combo showed a slightly different red/green pattern, but it was there in all of them.

Maybe I'm destined to work on the Red-Green show on TV; if I held the camera sideways, and just right, I could enhance the color of their suspenders.

Gary
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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:54 PM   #19
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I find this logic a bit circular. It's a known issue in other (including more expensive) cameras, and people work around it. The technology to address it I assume took time to implement at this price point.
The thing is, people DON'T have to work around it with other cameras. Those cameras have the white shading function to correct such a problem. Since this is not an old issue, they should have known how to fix it a long time ago.

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The other exacerbating factor is shooting at the extremes of the lens focal length - especially full telephoto. I'm only picking up on mine against a white background at the extremes of fstop and focal length. It's just another thing to learn and work around through steps that minimize it or ways to correct it. High-end cameras have more areas to be careful about than camcorders.
hmmm. getting touchy here. Getting the best these cameras can deliver requires some dedicated technical cinematography. The 16x lens I suspect needs even more care, and that is where most of the fault lies. If you are shooting against a white background, try to avoid the telephoto range, keep the exposure around f4, and don't use any gain ;^)
The thing is, I am getting the red/green at ALL focal distances. I don't understand your logic of having to "put up" with equipment which is not working the way it should. That's why I try to buy "pro" gear so I don't have to deal with stupid, simple issues--like the camera not producing a clean image!! It's a simple issue that should never appear nowadays on a "pro" camera (and JVC calls the 110 a pro camera.) I just feel that a "pro" camera should perform better than a prosumer camera, and right now it's not.

I think this is one reason I am looking forward to the RED cam. They have taken great care in designing a product that is professional in all aspects. They don't seem to be taking any short-cuts or skimping in the design (I see that from them saying, "yeah, we are going to wait a few weeks on the release because we think we can get a few more stops out of the chip if we work on it some more.")

Sure, release a camera with not as many features. However, make sure the image is clean!

Matthew
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Old May 12th, 2007, 10:52 AM   #20
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Well, I can see that this is frustrating for some people in some configurations. The 200 does allow you to adjust white shading, so it works, and it simply is 2nd generation technology at this pricepoint. Overall, I'm quite please with the niche of JVC's ProHD. There are lots of compromises, and preferential choices to consider at this price range.

I follow the RED a bit as well. It should represent a significant breakthrough in technology. But, you have to order a camera at least a YEAR in advance of delivery, and the delays are not really that specific. (more like: we are not able to meet our claimed quality standard, and production will be delayed for an indefinite period - see www.red.com ). Not to mention the cost for a package with narrow functionality. It really isn't a fair comparision.
I'm interested though, Do you have a link to information about their white shading correction? Given the variety of lenses people expect to put on this unit I'm sure adjustment will be needed - or will that be post workflow?
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Old May 12th, 2007, 11:06 AM   #21
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Well, I can see that this is frustrating for some people in some configurations. The 200 does allow you to adjust white shading, so it works, and it simply is 2nd generation technology at this pricepoint. Overall, I'm quite please with the niche of JVC's ProHD. There are lots of compromises, and preferential choices to consider at this price range.
I could understand "2 generation" fixes if it was a new problem to 100 series only. However, this evidently can be a problem for ALL 3 CCD cameras, and should have been addressed. I'm sorry, but it's labeled as a "Pro ENG" camera, and many times in ENG style you have to shoot wideopen against, gasp..white backgrounds! I'm sorry, I'm just sick of companies not taking pride in their work anymore. It's all about trying to make a quick buck.


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Originally Posted by Sean Adair View Post
I follow the RED a bit as well. It should represent a significant breakthrough in technology. But, you have to order a camera at least a YEAR in advance of delivery, and the delays are not really that specific. (more like: we are not able to meet our claimed quality standard, and production will be delayed for an indefinite period - see www.red.com ). Not to mention the cost for a package with narrow functionality. It really isn't a fair comparision.
I'm interested though, Do you have a link to information about their white shading correction? Given the variety of lenses people expect to put on this unit I'm sure adjustment will be needed - or will that be post workflow?
You shouldn't need to white shade on the RED if I understand the problem correctly. You only get the gradient in 3 CCD cameras, as the light splits through a prism and doesn't align correctly.

Matthew
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Old May 12th, 2007, 10:43 PM   #22
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The issue is also described as a LENS accuracy problem, but the interaction with the prism makes sense. Personally I think JVC does care, and are developing and producing the best they can. They are a relatively small company, innovative, and working hard to fill a niche in pro cameras. The 200 is the FIRST in its class to offer white shading. Jvc is proud of this rightly. But my rig cost nearly twice as much as the 100 w/ a 16x. Your 100 is in the same price range as "prosumer" style HD camcorders, and far cheaper than other "broadcast" form HD cameras.
There are some compromises associated with this range, but many people just go out and make great work with what they have after learning about it's strengths and weaknesses. Others blame their tools and will always need the next thing. This is not a personal comment to be offended by! I aspire to transcend the tools I work with, although I also face challenges along the way.
I'm sure there will be some early adapters in the RED camp who will be dissatisfied too. I suspect it will transform the high end market, but I'm not as confident about it scaling down for a lower budget. But this is a discussion for somewhere else!
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