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Old October 6th, 2009, 06:46 AM   #1
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HM700 and Matte Box.. Do I really need it?

I've been using all in one cameras for years (PD150 and Z1). This spring I finally bought a more "serious" camera, the JVC HM700 and gradually I'm starting to understand many things about lenses, aberration, and add-ons of every kind.

I was thinking of getting a Mattebox with the Zacuto rail adaptor (is that how you call it?). I'm new to all this so I have some quesions....

1) Do I really need it? I know it looks much better.. but .. simple filters to thread on cost 10$ (ok Century cost 130$).. but do I need a Mattebox?
2) Do I need a Zacuto rail (as far as I understand they are the only one producing for HM700 at present)? To do what? Will not the matte box hold itself on the lenses?
3) How can I use the matte box both with normal Fujinon 16x and with my ide angle add-on? The thread is different (very wide at the end)... Do I have to look for a Cinema mattebox and then an adaptor form (roughly) 100mm to 82 ?
4) Does the Matte Box "hook" only on the lenses, also on the rail track, on both?

Thanks for any help you can give me
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Old October 28th, 2009, 11:57 AM   #2
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I am not too knowledgeable about matte boxes, but most higher end matte boxes are pretty heavy, and they go on rails so you can adjust them to fit other stuff.
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Old October 28th, 2009, 01:45 PM   #3
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Just my opinion: matte boxes are great if you are doing studio or location work where lens flare and/or filters and optical add-ons are needed, and the camera is on sticks or a dolly. For hand-held work, very cumbersome.

Also, matte boxes are absurdly expensive, with the exception of some asian knockoffs which have a bad reputation. They add bulk and weight, and the weight is at the front of the camera where you don't want it. Most attach to rails, which adds to the bulk and weight. I think, if you are doing production work where it's needed, you will know. If you are doing events or news or whatever, save your money. My two cents, others may have other ideas on this..../ Battle Vaughan
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Old October 28th, 2009, 01:59 PM   #4
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1) Do I really need it? I know it looks much better.. but .. simple filters to thread on cost 10$ (ok Century cost 130$).. but do I need a Mattebox?

Depends what you need to do - you need it if you use graduated filters for contrast control, or if you want to use a French flag to cut out glare

2) Do I need a Zacuto rail (as far as I understand they are the only one producing for HM700 at present)? To do what? Will not the matte box hold itself on the lenses?

Rails are used to support heavy lenses and matte boxes. A lot of smaller matte boxes mount fine onto lenses so you don't neccessarily need rails

3) How can I use the matte box both with normal Fujinon 16x and with my ide angle add-on? The thread is different (very wide at the end)... Do I have to look for a Cinema mattebox and then an adaptor form (roughly) 100mm to 82 ?

Most matte boxes fix to different lenses with adapter rings. But there are limits, depending on how big your matte box is - they are limited by the diameter of the back of the box, and by how wide the lens you can use before it vignettes

4) Does the Matte Box "hook" only on the lenses, also on the rail track, on both?

Some mount on the lens, some on rails, some on both

Try Glass Filters from Formatt Filters : Market Leading Glass Filters, HD Filters & Camera Filters They do a simple, relatively cheap matte box that's well made. Cheaper still is Lee Filters - Welcome They do a Wide Lens Hood, that has slots for mounting filters and a bellows hoods.
If you want to spend more money you can't go wrong with Vocas matte boxes.

Steve
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Old October 28th, 2009, 05:11 PM   #5
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Too late!

Sorry to everybody... you were too late! :) In the end I found a cheap one on eBay and got it just a few days ago... Matte Box+French FLAG XL-1,XL-2,VX2100,VX2000,PD150,170 su eBay.it Filter, Camcorder-Zubehör, Foto Camcorder
I have no real comparison.. but it seems ok. The looks are ok, it has 2 filter holders (one rotating) in standard 4x4 size. It hooks only on lenses (allthough they'll be coming up soon with a rail adapter too I've been told). I ordered with a 82 mm adaptor and a 72 mm adaptor to use with HM700 and Sony Z1.
I'm looking for filters now. I watched the link you gave me Steve. They seem good products.. not really cheap I guess. Also they have "new" HD filters. What does this mean? That Tiffen brand line is to throw away until they don't make an HD line to? Isn't a good piece of glass good anyway?
I think I'l look only for a full ND (HM700's ND is not to strong in full sunlight) and a graded ND (always usefull). I have thread rings polarizers, UV etc and I don't like to colour while shooting (better keep original and colour in post I think).
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Old October 28th, 2009, 06:15 PM   #6
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I've wondered myself what "HD filters" are, probably just a marketing thing. Formatt are cheaper than Tiffen by a long way and I've found them good.
Steve
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Old November 2nd, 2009, 07:14 AM   #7
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HD filter is not High definition but it's mean Hight Density so it's more resistant .

It's confusing and many customers think because it's HD that it will be Very good for the

image quality but not in this case.



Mike
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 09:57 PM   #8
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I bought a Cavision matte box for my JVC HD101 but I would steer clear of the "cheaper" filters. Even Cavision's cheaper line, the pattern on the grads was coarse enough to be quite noticeable on the camera, especially if working with shallow DOF.

The main reason for getting a matte box may well be to add addiional ND to the HM700. Only having 1/16 and 1/32 is silly - to keep the camera at it's optimal iris in bright light with 180 deg shutter you need 1/64th. The Sony EX series come with only two built in ND's but at least they are 1/16th and 1/64th.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 06:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcello Mazzilli View Post
I have no real comparison.. but it seems ok. The looks are ok, it has 2 filter holders (one rotating) in standard 4x4 size. It hooks only on lenses (allthough they'll be coming up soon with a rail adapter too I've been told). I ordered with a 82 mm adaptor and a 72 mm adaptor to use with HM700 and Sony Z1.
This model doesn't use 4x4 filters, but Cokin P series.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 07:54 AM   #10
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As far as I can see (having it here in front of me) is not what I find looking for Cokin on the web. I said.. is my first Mattebox... But Coking slide from top to bottom and are held in place on the sides. This has a 4x4 space. You pull slightly up the "golden" mental rod at the top held in place by a spring, insert a glass (think is 4x4 and let go the spring so to hook the filter in place.
M
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Old November 8th, 2009, 04:59 AM   #11
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Keeps the rain off

Thanks for the links!

(Currently, I am using a very "poor man's" anti-rain flag, created from a sheet of "plastic cardboard"..not sure what its officially called..but it looks like the cardboard that shipping boxes are made out of,,cept its plastic.)

I drilled a hole thru the plastic sheet ,bolted it to the front of the 700, using the bolt hole near the mic mount area..trimmed the sheet to fit around the mic...( I wanted bout 2-3 inches on either side of the glass,plus bout 3-5 inches past the front of the glass as well.

It looks like hell, and is awkward, but when the rain is coming down in torrents like it was a couple weeks ago,, it keeps the drops off.. (not any good in high wind tho..just a big ol sail)

I would suggest adding some side flags as well, for rain that comes in sideways! ;-p

It'll have to do till I get me some cash for a box.. (Yay, more stuff to add to the weight)
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