Problem with TRV70, Optura Xi at DVinfo.net

Brian De Leenheer · October 8th, 2003, 06:39 PM

I recently bought a Sony TRV70 as a replacement for a TRV11 that met with an accident (broken screen - otherwise still works). Shooting indoors in any kind of back-lit situation (eg. with a window in the background), the bright object results in vertical bars up and down the entire picture that go way beyond what I would expect as lens flare. It's to the point that in backlit situations, the video is useless. My TRV11 has is far superior in this respect and I have been back to the store where I bought the TRV70 to show them the problem. They exchanged my TRV70 for another but the problem remained. I tried a TRV39 and it too seems to have the same problem although maybe not as severe. I also tried a Canon Optura Xi and it looks to be immune to this problem, the picture quality looked amazing but it has what seems to be a huge flaw as well. When panning with the camera, the picture goes completely soft and does not sharpen up until you stop panning. This is extremely noticable in any kind of indoor situation and even outdoors although to a lesser degree. When I boosted the shutter speed to 1/120 sec it seemed better but the video was very underexposed. The low-light performance of this camera is also very poor compared to the three Sonys. I have not spoken to the camera store about this problem yet but I wanted to see if anyone else has had this experience. I love the features and feel of the Canon and I'm hoping this is just a lemon but I would be interested to hear others experience (if any) with either of these problems. Thanks,

Brian

Glenn Chan · October 8th, 2003, 06:53 PM

I think the Sony camera's vertical streaking thing is an inherent CCD problem. It is solved with the VX2000 and above (which is relatively expensive).

See...
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/S...exviewhad.html
http://www.greenmist.com/pdx10/ (vertical smear example)

I had no idea what might solve this. Maybe a neutral density filter would help?????????

Frank Granovski · October 8th, 2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

When panning with the camera, the picture goes completely soft and does not sharpen up until you stop panning. This is extremely noticable in any kind of indoor situation and even outdoors although to a lesser degree. When I boosted the shutter speed to 1/120 sec it seemed better but the video was very underexposed. The low-light performance of this camera is also very poor compared to the three Sonys.

1) Panning how? Panning slowly with a fluid video head/tripod?

2) Poor low light using a 1/120 sec shutter setting?

Anyway, Allan tested a number of cams, including the Optura Xi, Sony TRV70/80 and the Sony PC300. He also concluded that these are not "low light" cams. However, the Optura Xi's video quality blows everything else away. Read Allan's findings on the MX forum.

Carlos De Souza · October 9th, 2003, 12:13 PM

I received my MVX3i yesterday. The manual states there may be some blur when panning, turning off the optical image stabilization will alleviate the problem.

Brian De Leenheer · October 9th, 2003, 05:33 PM

Thanks for the info so far. To answer some of the previous questions, the panning I did was hand-held, and what I considered very slow. I did not try with a tripod. I first noticed this problem while following around my 1-year old and it was the motion as I moved through the house that showed the initial blurring. I thought that the image stabilizer may be causing a problem so I turned it off and did not notice any difference in the blurring. The "low light" evaluations I did indoors in rooms fully lit with halogen pot lights and in both automatic and shutter-priority modes on the camera. I also tried the Xi in automatic mode with some lights turned off and the image was virtually black. With my TRV11, the same scene was completely visible with decent colour information. I am evaluating another TRV39 and I will post my comparison with that camera as well.

Brian

Brian De Leenheer · October 9th, 2003, 06:38 PM

Doing some more reading of posts in these groups and I think what I am seeing is "smear". From what I read it sounds like like this is not an uncommon problem with Sony camcorders - my question is why do I not see it on my TRV11 but do see it on all the newer models I try?

Brian

Glenn Chan · October 9th, 2003, 06:50 PM

Hmm my own link was a bit off.

Here should be a more useful link: http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/S...structure.html
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/S...sor-frame.html

Chris Hurd · October 10th, 2003, 08:35 PM

Glenn -- those are EXCELLENT links -- many thanks!

Frank Granovski · October 10th, 2003, 08:45 PM

I was fooling around with an Optura Xi today. The local shop just got it in 2 days ago. They are also going to have one for rental. WHAT A NICE 1 CHIP CAM!!!

Shawn Mielke · October 11th, 2003, 02:38 PM

Perhaps, Frank, if you've the time, you could give a little first impressions report on the Xi after another visit to the shop. Something like that? That would be great!
Regards,
Shawn

Frank Granovski · October 11th, 2003, 03:01 PM

I'm going to be renting one for a day sometime in the near future. I just have to wait for a sunny day. (It's been raining here lately.)

October 8th, 2003, 06:39 PM	#1
Brian De Leenheer New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Waterdown, Ontario Posts: 13	Problem with TRV70, Optura Xi I recently bought a Sony TRV70 as a replacement for a TRV11 that met with an accident (broken screen - otherwise still works). Shooting indoors in any kind of back-lit situation (eg. with a window in the background), the bright object results in vertical bars up and down the entire picture that go way beyond what I would expect as lens flare. It's to the point that in backlit situations, the video is useless. My TRV11 has is far superior in this respect and I have been back to the store where I bought the TRV70 to show them the problem. They exchanged my TRV70 for another but the problem remained. I tried a TRV39 and it too seems to have the same problem although maybe not as severe. I also tried a Canon Optura Xi and it looks to be immune to this problem, the picture quality looked amazing but it has what seems to be a huge flaw as well. When panning with the camera, the picture goes completely soft and does not sharpen up until you stop panning. This is extremely noticable in any kind of indoor situation and even outdoors although to a lesser degree. When I boosted the shutter speed to 1/120 sec it seemed better but the video was very underexposed. The low-light performance of this camera is also very poor compared to the three Sonys. I have not spoken to the camera store about this problem yet but I wanted to see if anyone else has had this experience. I love the features and feel of the Canon and I'm hoping this is just a lemon but I would be interested to hear others experience (if any) with either of these problems. Thanks, Brian

October 10th, 2003, 08:35 PM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Glenn -- those are EXCELLENT links -- many thanks! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 11th, 2003, 02:38 PM	#10
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Perhaps, Frank, if you've the time, you could give a little first impressions report on the Xi after another visit to the shop. Something like that? That would be great! Regards, Shawn __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

October 8th, 2003, 06:53 PM	#2
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	I think the Sony camera's vertical streaking thing is an inherent CCD problem. It is solved with the VX2000 and above (which is relatively expensive). See... http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/S...exviewhad.html http://www.greenmist.com/pdx10/ (vertical smear example) I had no idea what might solve this. Maybe a neutral density filter would help?????????

October 9th, 2003, 12:13 PM	#4
Carlos De Souza New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 7	I received my MVX3i yesterday. The manual states there may be some blur when panning, turning off the optical image stabilization will alleviate the problem.

October 9th, 2003, 05:33 PM	#5
Brian De Leenheer New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Waterdown, Ontario Posts: 13	Thanks for the info so far. To answer some of the previous questions, the panning I did was hand-held, and what I considered very slow. I did not try with a tripod. I first noticed this problem while following around my 1-year old and it was the motion as I moved through the house that showed the initial blurring. I thought that the image stabilizer may be causing a problem so I turned it off and did not notice any difference in the blurring. The "low light" evaluations I did indoors in rooms fully lit with halogen pot lights and in both automatic and shutter-priority modes on the camera. I also tried the Xi in automatic mode with some lights turned off and the image was virtually black. With my TRV11, the same scene was completely visible with decent colour information. I am evaluating another TRV39 and I will post my comparison with that camera as well. Brian

October 9th, 2003, 06:38 PM	#6
Brian De Leenheer New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Waterdown, Ontario Posts: 13	Doing some more reading of posts in these groups and I think what I am seeing is "smear". From what I read it sounds like like this is not an uncommon problem with Sony camcorders - my question is why do I not see it on my TRV11 but do see it on all the newer models I try? Brian

October 9th, 2003, 06:50 PM	#7
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Hmm my own link was a bit off. Here should be a more useful link: http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/S...structure.html http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/S...sor-frame.html

October 10th, 2003, 08:45 PM	#9
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I was fooling around with an Optura Xi today. The local shop just got it in 2 days ago. They are also going to have one for rental. WHAT A NICE 1 CHIP CAM!!!

October 11th, 2003, 03:01 PM	#11
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I'm going to be renting one for a day sometime in the near future. I just have to wait for a sunny day. (It's been raining here lately.)