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Old January 6th, 2002, 06:33 PM   #31
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You can review:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/film_look.html
on how to get a film look from video.

I'd also suggest :
www.kenstone.net
for some highly informative info on video set up and manipulation.

Really Dan, go to a store and hold 'em. touch 'em and use 'em. I mean, you wouldn't buy a new car without test driving it would you?

As for a second camera, stick with one line. You may even want to go with the GL1 (XM1 to you) and then step into a XL1s at a later date.
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Old March 27th, 2002, 03:27 PM   #32
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DV camera choice

Gday from Australia,

I received this request from a work collegue & thought I would post it here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

"I would like to get my daughter for her birthday a digital video recorder and would be greatful for any advice..
She is intending to make a video of her year 12 school, a year book on video.

It should be able to take still shots,
it should have a flash light built in,
out put for remote mic,
easily transfered to computer for editing,
low light capability,

we looked at Sony DCRTRV17 first then the TRV30e then the JVC GRDVX78 and now i am confused.
one other question is it better/cheaper to purchase it overseas, via one of my long haul friends?"....

Thanks,

Andrew.
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Old March 27th, 2002, 05:38 PM   #33
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Howdy from Texas,

Personally I'd take a Sony over a JVC. Just about any DV camcorder will provide just about everything you list for requirements... still shots, input for remote mic, easily transfered to computer for editing, and low light capability. Some Sony camcorders and the Canon Optura Pi, Optura 100MC, ZR30MC and ZR50MC can accept $50 on-camera lights which run off the camera battery.

You're really better off buying locally as shipping a PAL-system camcorder from Europa to Oz will cost you much more than whatever small amount you would have saved on the price.

The right camera is the one which feels best in your hands... so tell your buddy and his daughter to try before they buy.

Sydney is currently void of Oils, as they are now on tour here in the States... just wishing for some Texas dates,
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Old March 27th, 2002, 06:41 PM   #34
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I've not done side by side testing of Sony VS. JVC, but so far, the Sony stuff has been great. I've done a lot of work with a digital 8 unit over the last 3 years and it's worked wonders and without any trouble. I know the miniDV stuff has been even better (better CCD's in the Camera Section).

The TRV 30 seems to be very highly recommended as far as single chip cams. Pana mx 300 (lucky PALguys) sounds very good for a three-chipper as well as the sony trv 900 and Canon GL1.

I'd also look into the little PC series cams by Sony. There is some truth about getting good footage because you actually had a (small) camera along with you instead of it sitting at home because it's too big to take along. The flipside is that it can be easily pocketed by the wrong person!
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Old March 28th, 2002, 06:38 PM   #35
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wow i can help!

I personally use a Sony DCR-tvr330. It has all of your options witht he exceptions of the flashlight. It has an excellent night shot capability. It is also great on the editing side as well. It saves all images to a sony SMARTSTICK.

All in all an excellent camera.

However, I would agree that the camera thats right is the one that feels right. Try it out. Read the manuel for other tricks and features.

Dennis
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Old April 14th, 2002, 02:02 AM   #36
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What DV camera to buy?

Hi all, I'm new to the world of film making having done nothing more than shoot 2 minutes of 16mm film and some home video footage. I'm wanting to move more seriously into filming and because of the prohibitive cost of film I want to get into DV.

I have several ideas (And partial scripts) for short movies and a full length that I want to do and am now looking for a good camera that will help me do that. I hope, eventually to get into shooting functions and the like to make a little money (Even just to pay back the cost of the camera). I also have ideas for a couple of small documentaries that could be made into videos for Special Interest Groups I am involved in.

My budget is about $NZ9-10000 (About $US4-5000) and looking around I've come down to a choice between 2 cameras

Canon XL1s and the Sony PD150.

I had a play with a PD150 today and was quite happy with it, but haven't had the chance to play with an XL1s to compare them (And it might be very hard as stores in Auckland, New Zealand tend not to stock them cause they are expensive and they don't sell them often)

The things I would like clarification/advice on are the following

Which image looks more "full", and less like video? I've heard that Canon's 25fps (PAL) progressive scan mode will help this a little, is this true? The PD 150 output definately looked better (less video like) than my home handycam but is the Canon even better?
Is lighting more of an issue here than the camera?

Can you get cheap XLR addons for the Canon? And what are they? When I finally get to shooting my mini-movie I will probably get a mic and boom and will want XLR input from what I've heard.

Is the interchangable lens system of the Canon a real plus or are the lens adapters for the PD150 perfectly fine? If I went Canon I would go with the 16x full manual, and don't see getting into things like Wideangle until I have some more stuff to shoot and can justify the cost.

What is the usability like for them both. Is it easy to change the exposure, gains and all that stuff that I don't fully understand yet?

So I guess I'm asking is there is anything blaringly stupid about any of these cameras that I should avoid, or would any of them suit me for the required sort of work I have mentioned I want to do?

And finally, I had a thought that I might be aiming too high when I'm just starting out so would it be more sensible for someone like me (Who won't make money from his work for a while) to get a less expensive camera (VX2000, XL1, or GL1 ) and use the extra money for mics/booms, recording deck , or few basic lights etc?


Thanks
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Old April 14th, 2002, 03:49 AM   #37
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The PD 150 output definately looked better (less video like) than my home handycam but is the Canon even better?
Is lighting more of an issue here than the camera?
=============================================
Yes, the Canon will have more of a film look than the PD-150 in progressive scan mode. Some also say that the softness and warmer picture of the Canon adds to this film look (the Sony has a cooler, sharper picture)

Can you get cheap XLR addons for the Canon? And what are they? When I finally get to shooting my mini-movie I will probably get a mic and boom and will want XLR input from what I've heard.
=============================================
You can buy the MA-100 (cheaper) or MA-200 for the XL1s which not only has XLR inputs but doubles as a better shoulder rest for the camera. The MA-200 also has space for you to attach a double-battery adapter so you can use/charge two batteries (not sure if the MA-100 has this)
The MA-200 sells for 300 in the UK, there may be a cheaper option but most people just buy MA-200/MA-100

Is the interchangable lens system of the Canon a real plus or are the lens adapters for the PD150 perfectly fine?
=============================================
Pros consider the interchangeable lens system to be a "real plus" because it allows the camera to grow with your experience and shooting requirements.
The manual lens of the XL1s is better than the lens of the PD-150 for a pro.
You might like to note that an anamorphic adapter is not yet available for the XL1s (used to make the picture widescreen), however I think one is being released in the near future.

What is the usability like for them both. Is it easy to change the exposure, gains and all that stuff that I don't fully understand yet?
=============================================
I dont actually own any of them so I cant say for sure, but I think in general the XL1s has more controls for you to change. The PD-150 has less controls and I think it is easier to change them.
The PD-150 is therefore better for point-and-shoot recording, whereas to get a good quality picture of the XL1s you need to do some fiddling first.

So I guess I'm asking is there is anything blaringly stupid about any of these cameras that I should avoid, or would any of them suit me for the required sort of work I have mentioned I want to do?
==============================================
Both of the cameras have reported problems, so the best idea would be to try-before-you-buy.
The XL1s apparently has a noisy zoom that can be heard from the stock-mic but you mention you will be getting the manual lens which does not have this problem.
The PD-150 has reported sound hiss (I think its fixed now).


Hope this helped somewhat, I haven't got any of these cameras so my knowledge is a bit limited.
For more information, you might want to use the search function at the top of the page.
You might also want to look at comparisons of the VX2000 and XL1s considering the only difference between the PD150 and VX2000 is the XLR inputs, microphone and recording format.
In terms of video quality, the VX2000 and PD150 and identical.
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Old April 14th, 2002, 12:18 PM   #38
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Howdy from Texas,

Dan has offered some excellent and accurate advice, to which I will only add one thing. You have done well to narrow down your choice to the PD150 and XL1S. Both truly are superb camcorders each in their own right. I firmly believe that you should touch 'n' try each, and view the video output on a professional broadcast monitor, before you buy. The right camcorder for you is the one which a.) feels best in your hands, and b.) looks most appealing on a monitor. Sony and Canon produce different flavors of video. It's a preference, kind of like what's your favorite ice cream. Hope this helps,
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Old April 14th, 2002, 06:25 PM   #39
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Thanks for the info guys. I will contact Canon New Zealand and see if they can put me in touch with one of their distributors who might let me demo the camera. I didn't view the output from the PD150 on a broadcast monitor unfortunately, so I might have to find another shop and try again. I doubt if the Sony store I went to actually had a proper broadcast monitor, just TV's.

One more thing regarding the zoom noise. I will get the manual lens but this is also connected up to the servo system of the camera so it can be controlled from the camera if you want. Does this mean that I will hear the sound of the zoom if I use this feature with the manual lens, or did the sound come from the lens itself, and not the servo?

Cheers.
Aaron
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Old April 15th, 2002, 12:58 AM   #40
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Aaron,

If you're planning on using external mics then the "Zoom Noise" won't be a problem.

If you use the onboard mic is it only noticeable when there is no other noise, like in a quiet room. If you are shooting in such a situation and don't need the audio, disconnect the mic.
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Old May 11th, 2002, 03:44 AM   #41
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one chip camera

Hi there.Please provide the correct settings on brightness & Contrast and also Hue & Saturation to create a deep black image similar to images on music videos and commercials on tv.

Thanks.

I'm using ulead mediastudio pro 6.0 VE

how do I create strong colors? here is an example of strong colors--- the color of the image on www.lighthousefamily.com. I think I can create similar strong colors utilizing hue & saturation and also brightness and contrast. I have tried sliding the hue & saturation/ Brightness and contrast controls on ulead media studio pro--- as of this moment, I am still tweaking the sliders to create a similar strong color. My current video results/outputs are only low quality and has lots of color noise. While some video results/outputs lost detail because it has too much black on it.

Once again, Thank you.

Ellis
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Old May 11th, 2002, 05:41 AM   #42
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Re: one chip camera

I hope you realize that most music videos are shot on 35mm film, some on 16mm and a very few on video (usually the ones that are supposed to look trashy and documentary). Your example is very typicqal of that you would get if shooting 35mm film (shallow focus) and then crushing the blacks in telecine. Trust me; there is no way on earth you can get this with a one chip DV camcorder and Ulead.

BUT you can get very good looking video if you are using a 3 chip camcorder, know how to light, have a decent color corrector, an After Effects plugin like Magic Bullet SD. And if you have the buck you can even get shallow focus mounting a Mini 35 Digital from P+S Technik on XL1, PD150, VX2000 or VX1000. But I don't think video will ever look like film. It will not look worse but diffrent. One chip will never look better than the Dogma movie "The Celebration".

Here are my own examples of "one chip to the max":
http://www.operafilm.com/eba.html
http://www.operafilm.com/trio.html

Mind you that this was shot with a pretty large chip (1/2").
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Old May 12th, 2002, 03:29 AM   #43
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one chip camera

Hi Martin. I just read your message. Thank you for your reply.
I tried viewing the mov videos on my browser but unfortunately the mov doesn't load on the quicktimeplugin.

You can send still images taken from the videos via e-mail.

mindbox@mozcom.com

And please feel free to include some tips and hints on one chip camera (settings), shooting on available light and nle editing (saturation) (Brightness and contrast).

Any help would be appreciated.

Once again, Thank you.

Sincerely yours,
Ellis
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Old May 12th, 2002, 04:36 AM   #44
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Re: one chip camera

Hi,

You probably do not have the QT5 browser plugin installed. It's at www.quicktime.com.
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Old August 1st, 2002, 07:45 PM   #45
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Which camera???

I just saw a high quality trailer for Tadpole and I have to say it looks fantastic (image quality wise)!! I've been planning on buying a PAL XL1S for a while now but have not seen any "real" footage shot with it other than a trailer for an indie film called Idleheist which does look very good (quality wise). Being Tadpole was shot on PAL PD-150's is it safe to say that the PAL XL1S is right on par with it image quality wise?


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