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Old December 31st, 2012, 07:41 PM   #1
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Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

We are looking to upgrade our church system from SD to HD. We currently use 2 JVC GY-DV500 cameras and capture through Firewire to pc. We then pull into Avid and post edit for our television program. I'm looking to go with 2 HD cameras that output HD/SDI to a switcher (something like a DataVideo SE-2000). Looking for 20x zoom and also would like to be tapeless. Our GY-DV500's have separate zoom and focus controls on our tripod handles. We need the new HD cameras to be controlled the same way. 5-8 inputs for the switcher. Budget ballpark is $20k -25K for cameras, switcher, intercom, and cables. I'm not brand loyal. We have had good service with the JVC's, and we have used some Canon XL2's also from time to time for mobile shooting. Some camera and switcher recommendations would help to point me in the right direction as I try and put this system together. Thanks for any help you can give me.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 09:36 PM   #2
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

Ross CrossOver Solo: $10k. 12 HD-SDI inputs, 3 keyers, 2 DVEs, 4 media stores, 3 AUX busses, and a built-in multiviewer.
Ross Video | Production Switchers | CrossOver | Models

Pretty good, now you have $15K for cameras. I will assume you are using the stock Fujinon lenses that came with the DV500, so getting another Fujinon lens will allow you to use the same lens controllers. Also I will assume you are keeping the tripods and the 4 pin XLR power supplies.

I like Panasonic products, so the HPX370 (or a used HPX300) is my first choice. They have Fujinon lenses stock, so chances are good that the existing lens controls are compatible (but check first anyway.) The other option would be the JVC GY-HM710. The only drawback is that it comes with a Canon lens stock.
So that is about $14k on cameras (HPX) or $11k (JVC, but you also need new lens controllers), which is at least $21k of your $25k budget.
Panasonic AG-HPX370 Series P2 HD Camcorder AGHPX370PJ B&H Photo
JVC GY-HM710U ProHD Compact Shoulder Camcorder GY-HM710U B&H


Looks like you might be able to get an intercom system. About $550 for a Telex power supply, then $300 each for the belt packs, plus $200 per headset. There's some variance depending on which headset model you get. I assumed you need 3 of each packs and headsets. That equals $26k total.
Telex PS-2001L - 2-Channel Power Supply for Wired F.01U.118.705
Telex BP-1002 - Single Channel Wired Intercom F.01U.118.742 B&H
Telex PH-88R Lightweight Single Sided Headset F.01U.117.490 B&H


Also keep in mind you need an HD monitor and cables for your switcher, UPS(s) for power, some sort of deck or capture card for recording, XLR cables for com, and HD-SDI compliant coax cables running to the cameras.

Overall I think it's doable, but you need to have a bit of know-how to wire it properly, especially the switcher rack.
Good luck!
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Old December 31st, 2012, 10:48 PM   #3
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

Thanks for the info. The JVC GY-HM710U is the camera I have been researching the most. You are correct about the Fujinon lenses. I was wondering if I could use the same controls if my new cameras had Fujinon lenses. You are also correct about the tripods, and power supplies. Adorama has a JVC GY-HM700U camera with the Fujinon 17X lens on it. $6395. I've been doing a google search for the differences between the GY-HM700U and the GY-HM710U, but I haven't found anything yet.

The Ross switcher looks good. I'll have to do some studying on that one. We already have an intercom so I won't have to worry with that.

Would you buy an HD recorder or would you install an HD/SDI capture card in a computer and record into it?

Thanks for your input.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 11:20 PM   #4
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

Well you said you wanted tapeless, and the cheapest way to do it would be to get a Blackmagic or AJA card for an existing computer. Both companies have PCI cards and external boxes, most using Thunderbolt or USB3. Then you could just capture directly into the editing program of your choice (like Avid) from the HD-SDI output of the switcher.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 01:35 AM   #5
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

The sony ex1 is pretty popular for this kind of work.
Its successor, the pmw-200 looks pretty capable.
Sony PMW-200 XDCAM HD422 Camcorder PMW-200 B&H Photo Video
Probably improved low light performance if you can live with only 14x zoom.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 01:24 PM   #6
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

Thanks Stephen,

We currently have 14X Fujinons on our DV500s and we need a little more zoom for the distance we have to shoot. The 1/2" cmos sensors on the PMW-200 would be great. The SxS cards are expensive. We are using an FX7 for our youth group. I'm not sure about lens control for broadcast use on the 200. I'll give it a look.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 03:04 PM   #7
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

If you can look at the GY-HM750u, B&H sells it as a " body-only" kit, and adds on the 17X Fujinon:
JVC GY-HM750 ProHD Compact Shoulder Camcorder GY-HM750L17 B&H
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Old January 1st, 2013, 03:51 PM   #8
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeVan Moxley View Post
We currently have 14X Fujinons on our DV500s and we need a little more zoom for the distance we have to shoot. The 1/2" cmos sensors on the PMW-200 would be great. The SxS cards are expensive.
I'd take a strong look at the Sony PMW320 -
Sony PMW-320K XDCAM EX HD Camcorder w/16x Zoom Lens PMW-320K B&H

It's 1/2" and comes with a pretty good interchangeable Fujinon lens (16x), and a similar form factor to your existing cameras. As far as SxS goes, then are you aware that cameras such as this and the PMW200 can be used with selected SDHC cards via an adaptor? There are a few limitations on such (like limited slo-mo), but for straightforward shooting I've found such to be very reliable. (As long as the cards are fully tested before serious use!)

The PMW320s are about $2,000 more than the HPX371 that Edward mentions, but if you want to use them in a non-cabled mode then P2 for the Panasonics puts the comparative price for the 371 up, especially if compared to PMW320s using SDHC. Even not allowing for that I'd still say the extra was worth it - the 1/2" chips make a lot of difference in low light, and if you need different lenses then availability of 1/2" lenses is better than the 1/3" of the HPX371. Also worth noting that the viewfinder on the PMW320 is excellent (same as the PMW350) - from memory the HPX371 is far less so.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 09:02 PM   #9
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

I have no doubt that the PMW320 is a great camera. The problem is budget. I was hoping to stay between $6k and $7k price tag and the 320 is $10k. I'm not saying that the 320 is overpriced. It's probably out of our price range. The 1/2" sensor in the 320 would be nice to have. The 1/3" sensor in the JVC cameras I mentioned above is a concern for me. I would much rather have a 1/2" cmos if possible. The JVC's are 1/3" ccd. From my reading and studying, it is my understanding that cmos is better than ccd in low light situations. Is this correct? I'm just not sure if I can find a 1/ 2" chip camera that I can attach studio zoom and focus for the price range I'm looking for. Any more suggestions on cameras would greatly be appreciated. Also, are there any other options for HD switchers under $10k other than the Datavideo or the Ross Crossover solo? Thanks to everyone for their insight and input.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:30 AM   #10
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeVan Moxley View Post
I have no doubt that the PMW320 is a great camera. The problem is budget. I was hoping to stay between $6k and $7k price tag and the 320 is $10k.
Point taken, though it's worth noting the B&H site has a $500 rebate on at the moment, so it's slightly less than $9,500 at the moment. OK, still well above $6-7k, but every little helps....... :-)

Yes, CMOS is likely to be better in low light than CCD. And I'm afraid you are going to have to do one of three things. Buy secondhand, compromise your requirements, or find a little more money in the camera budget. If you can afford it, or can find a good secondhand one, I'd still say the PMW320 is best bang for buck. If you can't afford it, then the JVCs are good value for money, but at the end of the day you get what you pay for.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #11
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

Interesting looking switchers from $2450! Haven't checked their features tho.

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Old January 13th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #12
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Re: Recommendations - HD multicamera system with switcher

As an ATEM 1ME owner, one thing I will tell you is that you will ALWAYS be a beta tester... each update fixes one thing and breaks another. Sometimes SEVERAL others...

By the time you buy all the little bits and pieces, you are within DOLLARS of a fully featured solution from Ross/JVC.

Yes, you can get in for $2500 plus a computer but by the time you get a control surface and the other stuff... no real economy.

Again, this coming from someone already invested... would I do it this way again for a single M/E buss? No. But if you need 2 M/E busses, the ATEM 2ME is the real star of the show...
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