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Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant
The 4K DVX200 plus previous Panasonic Pro Line cams: DVX100A, DVC60, DVC30.


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Old August 6th, 2003, 12:45 PM   #16
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DVX100 or DVC80 for event video?

Hey all!

Last week, my question would have been PD150 or DVC80, but with the DVC80 for only $2400 now at B&H, the Sony is no longer an option.

I primarily do event videography (weddings, military functions, homecomings, etc.) and plan on doing a few docs later on, but more as a hobby.

Is the DVX100 overkill for this type of current usage, or still worth the additional $700+ to get Progressive scan for event videography (edited very artistically)?

I need to make a decision this week so please give me your wisdom!! Thank you all in advance.
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Old August 7th, 2003, 09:46 AM   #17
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I prefer......

to engage in 24 or 30 P - the picture quality is superb. However, keeping focus at an event can be a bitch. I imagine you will have all the same picture controls with the 80 but without the progressive scan capabilities. That in itself makes the panny a good choice. I shot a wedding in 60i with the panny (my first shoot with the cam about 3 days after I got it - didn't have the confidence to shot progressive at that time.) At this point, I'd reshoot that event in 30p given the choice. anyhoo- good luck.
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Old August 7th, 2003, 11:08 AM   #18
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Hey, the DVX has more than just the 24p and 30p modes so I would go with it if you can afford it. I shoot events all the time in 24p, and i just infinity focus.

But, if you never ever want to shoot progressive, or use the extra transport controls or DSP settings, and are about to buy a GL2 or sony, go with the DVC-80.
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Old August 11th, 2003, 04:23 PM   #19
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DVC-80, DVX100 or PD150... Which one?

Hello,

I'm starting a project in which I need a very good 3 Chip hand held Cam. It's size has to be small to allow for mounting on motorcycles and other machines. For shots in very tight areas (like inside of engine bays), I'll be using high resolution "lipstick cam" and plan on plugging that into the 3 chip cam (use it as a VTR). Now, I really don't need to shoot in 24p or 30p modes, this is why I'm looking at the Panny DVC-80.

Most of the shots will be during day light hours, some at "the golden hour", only a few night shots, and several indoor interviews. All of my subjects (except for the interviews) will be moving "very fast" or will be in conditions that are not "human friendly", like above/underwater surfing shots at the pipe, high speed runs on fast machines, etc.....

From what I've read here so far, the DVC-80 is the same as the DVX100 without 24p, cinigamma, and few other modes. I can apply filters/plugs in post to achieve the "cinigamma" and other DSP effects of the DVX100, so I'm looking to save some cash for other toys needed for this project. The DVC-80 is selling for around $2000-$2300 depending on dealer choice. The savings between the DVC-80 and the DVX100 or a PD150 would allow me to purchase an underwater housing, and other needed accessories.

Sooo.... Here a few questions.
==============================
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(1) Does anyone here have the DCV-80? If so, what are your likes/dislikes about it?
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(2) The Sony PD150 is great in low light, how does the DVC-80 compare to it?
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(3) How durable is the DVC-80? Can it operate in rugged environments or function well in high vibration situations (meaning high wind and engine vibes transmitted through cam mounting)? Also, what's the average usage hours on a DVC-80 before sending it off for a major overhaul (lets say under normal use, I can calculate the "beating factor" in later)?
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(4) Any suggestions of other 3 chip cams if you think the DVC-80 is not a good choice? Also, please explain why.
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(5) Has Panny fixed focusing & zooming issues with the DVC-80? I've read that the DVX100 in manual mode takes some practice in regards to focusing and zooming.
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(6) Panny mentions they have installed stops on focus and zoom rings. Is it the same as the DVX100? (I really hate the endless spinning rings).
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(7) Does a company sell a shoulder brace/mount for the DVC-80 (not necessarily from Panny) for shoulder held shots?
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(8) Are there any links that show pics of the Panasonic underwater housing? Does anyone here have one, is it a good quality unit? Likes/Dislikes? Are there other units that will mate with the DVC-80 without modding them?
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(9) Are there any links to more reviews on the DVC-80? It's a new cam and I can't find many out there (online).
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(10) Any reasons why I should not get the DVC-80? (Please be objective).
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==============================

That about covers it.... Any information and feedback will be greatly appreciated (thanks in advance). Well, I have to take a nap (YAWN).... Have a great week and trouble free shoot everyone.


-Terry
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Old August 12th, 2003, 08:50 AM   #20
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Anybody here? Hmmmm.... Can anyone help out? Pretty please with sugar on top ..

-Terry
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Old August 12th, 2003, 03:57 PM   #21
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Re: DVC-80, DVX100 or PD150... Which one?

<<<-- Originally posted by Terry Glatz : Hello,
I can apply filters/plugs in post to achieve the "cinigamma" and other DSP effects of the DVX100, so I'm looking to save some cash for other toys needed for this project. -->>>

Cinegamma cannot be achieved in post. It actually changes the gamma of the captured image resulting in a increase in exposure latitude. You can simulate in post, but you cannot create pixels that the camera did not capture up front.

24P can be done in post, but unless you already own a quality plugin, it will cost you $300 to $1000 to get the software. That kills the price advantage right there.

I don't own nor have I used a DCV-80 and it's camera for people who want basic, rugged, quality 60i interlaced video footage i.e. broadcasters and some event/corporate types. It's not intended for creative, narrative or film-style productions.
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Old August 12th, 2003, 04:44 PM   #22
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If you can LEGITIMATELY get a dv80 for $2K then I'd probably do that... when I researched it the difference between a dv80 and a dvx100 was only $400 which begged the question, "What's the point?"

I'm surprised that Panasonic has both these cameras available. As I read it the dv80 doesn't do ANY progressive modes let alone the cine-gamma etc.

It's only my humble opinion, but you really need to find somebody local to you that can show you the benefits of going with the dvx. I'll be surprised if anybody who buys a dvx ever goes back to 60i... About the ONLY reason I can find for this cam to even have 60i built into it is for the extremely rare occasion when you absolutely MUST use gain to get light over clarity... as in identifying a criminal or something where light is crucial... otherwise you'll prefer the darker (and SHARPER) image of the progressive modes.

I expect that 90% of my future video will be in 30p, 8% will be in 24p, and 2% will be 60i... it's THAT good. Really.

As far as taking a point by point approach to your list of questions, I really can't address all of them based on my lack of experience with the dv80... The manual focus is great on the dvx (and so the dv80)... very fast and easy, there are no stops on that, but as you use it you'll realize that it's not really needed anyway... you'll be feathering focus with a nudge, not spinning to focus. The zoom does have stops though, but using this cam in manual zoom is not something I expect to do... full wide to full zoom is a 90 degree turn so there is no way you're going to do a smooth zoom without doing it electronically, unless you want to do Adam Wilt's string thing.

Just to prove I'm not irrationally biased to the Panasonic I can tell you that I doubt anybody makes a more DURABLE camera then Sony... I expect that the pd150 is physically tougher, but time will tell on that issue and I WILL say that the dvx and dv80 are made of magnesium alloy NOT plastic, as they appear. Go to Adam Wilt's page for a cool pic. Also the pd150 is a better low-light cam by a marginal amount... if low light was the ONLY consideration I'd probably go with the pd150.

The audio on the dv80 will be on par with the dvx and that is a big plus... Panny leads the class on audio right now. Even after the "fixed" audio on pd150's people say it's not very close to the dvx audio.

You may have people try to tell you to consider a pdx10 since you're mentioning a $2K price, but I doubt that price will prove to be a real one... so if the "real" price is more like $2500 then you're in the park with pd150's and only $500 away from a dvx.

Tiburon makes an underwater housing for most lanc protocol cams for around $600 at B&H... Panny's control system is different so we'll have to see what comes out for the dvx. Gates housings often cost as much as the camera... so pay or wait.

Now that I've offered some info and a well-deserved complement for the pd150 I'm gonna' give you a Super-Panasonic Wedgy just so you'll go to sleep tonight hearing voices in your head (convincing you that you'll be HAPPIEST with the dvx)... here's a quote from VideoSystems... an industry magazine that plugs Sony products almost EXCLUSIVELY every time somebody asks what camera to get... In the December 02 issue Barry Braverman said:

"With all the hype surrounding this breakthrough camera, it may be difficult for the curious shooter to seperate fact from fiction. Let's just say the dvx100 represents a quantum leap forward in DV imaging. Shadow detail and lens performance are both exceptionally good, especially for a DV model in this price range."
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Old August 12th, 2003, 11:25 PM   #23
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Thanks for the replies.

Note: I'm not fixed on the 2k price of the DVC-80, however, I was curious about what you get for $2,000 bucks.
It might be a great second cam to have in the bag though.

Yes, your right about simulating cini-gama in post, but you can get sort of close. As far as other plug ins, I have a boat load of them. More often than not, I don't use them (Less is more sometimes).

Anyway, the project will not begin until this fall (late October), so I can stash away more cash for a DVX100. I will need to buy new NLE software that supports 24p, any recommendations? Please, no rinky dink stuff for tourists and home movie makers.... I prefer to use software & hardware combo's that have it's own SCSI bus controller on the PVR board (drives connect directly to the card, like DPS systems impliments). This way your not dependent on the computer system bus or CPU speeds while editing/rendering.

Now, the version of Speed Razor I own does not support 24p (unless I import it via analog connection (S-VHS or component In). This can introduce more visual quality problems when going this route though (not to bad, but enough to bother me). Plus, my version is for hardware specific cards, such as my DPS PVR and others. You can use your "system drives" with my version, but it's slow as death!

The DVX100 has been one of my choices (I'm leaning that way now).
Sorry, I'm pretty biased against Sony due to several nasty problems I had with them in the past and their policy of "we control the world and the medium you buy". Yes, I know it's a silly reason, but it's the same feeling I have towards Microsquish (soft).

Don't get me wrong, I've used Sony pro audio and video gear for years, and they do produce great stuff. However, their policies in regards to admitting bugs, honoring warranties, and other nonsense is not acceptable with me. I've been stuck with the bill many times when Sony has denied a problem on their end... Now I read here about how they dealt with the PD150 audio noise problem. Nope, I think that other manufactures out there make great gear also and I'll stick with them. Panny has never given me problems in the past and their gear has taken a beating and kept on running and running and running....

Anyway, your point about the DVX is well taken (Thanks for planting the seed). The savings is not "that important" to me if I'm getting a superior product. It will just be a pain to buy and learn a new NLE system. Oh well, we must move forward in life and that means learning new stuff I guess.

Thanks again for the information. If you have anymore suggestions, please fire away.

Have a great week.

-Terry
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Old August 12th, 2003, 11:49 PM   #24
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Hardware assisted 24p that explicity supports the DVX100 is Avid Xpress Pro with Mojo, Final Cut Pro with Cinewave (don't know much about that choice) and not much else that I have heard.

Nothing stated on new Matrox, Canopus, DPS or other Pinnacle products (though if anyone knows, please post it here).

A lot of us like Vegas 4.0. I came to it from Matrox RT2000 and much prefer it though I'm still learning the video cutting side (used it for audio for some time).

On a fast machine, I don't miss any of the "real-time" assist.

The key for NLE is they must support the 2:3:3:2 pulldown on 24P advanced mode. Ideally for capture, previews and output (with and without reverse pulldown).
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Old August 13th, 2003, 03:14 PM   #25
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Terry, I read your post after mine and I need to re-emphasize a point. I plan to shoot 90% of my video in 30p, not 24p... and 30p loads directly into whatever nle you use right now. I get great results right out of premiere 6.0. For normal tv viewing most people will prefer 30p most of the time.

Since you were initially considering a 60i camera, you don't have to turn your world upside down to accomodate 24p... you can always do that later and still be elated with the images you get from the dvx in 30p.

Also I couldn't agree with you more on Sony's politics... I try as hard as I can to buy ANY other brand first. The only time I don't is when I truly feel that Sony is my only choice for a particular need and price range.
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Old August 25th, 2003, 06:22 PM   #26
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Does the DVC80 have the image controls of the DVX100?

I know the DVX100 has all sorts of image controls (gamma, etc)...does the DVC80 have these as well? Is the 60i image of the DVX100 the same as the image the DVC80 produces?
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Old August 25th, 2003, 08:17 PM   #27
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Here's a list that someone made which should detail all the differences:

http://www.2-pop.com/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post616014

In short, no, the DVC80 does not have all the image-adjustment features (if this person's list is definitely accurate). No adjustable gamma, no cine-matrix, no color temperature shift, maybe some other things. Of course, neither does the PD150, which is the DVC80's main competition, so maybe they thought we wouldn't notice?

Other than those things, the 60i performance should be basiaclly identical between the DVC80 and the DVX100.
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Old September 13th, 2003, 06:02 PM   #28
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DVC-80 comments?

I am suprised that this camera get's so little attention. It's features seem to put it in the PD-150 range at a VX2K price. Anyone used/bought this camera like to comment on performance, image, audio, controls, etc?

GL
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Old September 13th, 2003, 11:02 PM   #29
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I ordered the dvx100 because I'm intrigued by all of the gamma settings and of course the progressive modes. However my primary use for it will be event work namely weddings. If I find the gamma settings and progressive modes not exactly fitting to my work I'll probably go with a dvc80 as my 2nd cam in the future.
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Old September 15th, 2003, 12:43 PM   #30
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I too was looking at the DVC-80 as an alternative to the GL2. What I did was download the DVC-80 manual and compare it to the dvx100 manual. Do this and you will find more than just 24p and cinegamma missing. The objectionable omissions were the removal of zoom and focus position feedback from the displays!

Personnaly the status of the zoom is important for preset shots, focus too.

The manuals for both cameras can be downloaded from panasonic's web site.
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