AG-DVC80 various topics

Barry Green · September 15th, 2003, 11:53 AM

The zoom and focus readouts are missing from the display? Really? That's not good.

The zoom readout isn't that big of a deal, because you always have the actual manual zoom ring you can look at and find out what position the zoom ring is at. The missing focus readout would be really disappointing, as that's one of the neatest features on the DVX100. Still, consider that the competition (GL2, PD150/170, VX2000, etc) don't have any sort of focus readout and it's not crippling, but certainly disappointing.

Joe Garnero · September 15th, 2003, 12:07 PM

Yes, I suppose in that light it isn't such an omission. I guess I may have lost sight of my goal and budget and started comparing the dvc to the dvx , rather than the GL2! Thanks for the slap back to reality and I am going to give it a second look!

I tried 2 GL2's from B&H and both had viewfinder problems. Canon suggested I send the camera to them for repair instead of returning it to B&H. I suggested they fix their production. That is why I began looking at the DVX then found the DVC-80. I really like the wide-angle lens and manual zoom capability!

For the gl2 viewfinder issue see the gl2 forum "gl2 defects"

Boyd Ostroff · September 15th, 2003, 01:31 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : Still, consider that the competition (GL2, PD150/170, VX2000, etc) don't have any sort of focus readout -->>>

FWIW, the PDX-10 has a focus readout (in meters), a zoom bar-graph and an exposure bar-graph. For some strange reason Sony decided to add the focus readout but not display the actual f-stop. Go figure...

Joe Garnero · September 15th, 2003, 02:10 PM

Yeah, the PDX10 was my first pro investment but I had to return it because of the smear problems I constantly encountered. I didn't feel that constant worry about avoiding limitations of the equipment was in order.

I decided to escalate my budget yet another notch to look at the GL2. My progression was:
Canon ZR65 - handy and convenient but not practical for my taste
Pana dv953 - great features and ergonomics, poor execution
Sony PDX10 - poor balance, akward controls, vertical smear
Canon GL2 - lousy viewfinder, lense a little long
Pana DVX100 - Too expensive for a first timer (maybe).

So my search continues... DVC80??? nothing in it's class

Cooleye Hu · September 17th, 2003, 08:57 AM

hi joe,

I am also interested in pdx10, would you please tell me how come you constantly have smear problem? under which condition ? thank you.

Joe Garnero · September 17th, 2003, 09:36 AM

Use the search button at the top of this page and search for my name. Then select the thraed titled "vertical smear: sounds like a bad skiing accident". In that thread you'll find my post about my PDX10 experience.

My conclusion was that after spending $1900 for a camera I should not have to be paranoid about scene content and bad side-effects. Sure there are work-arounds but I don't know them, and couldn't get those posted herein to work. The fact that Sony eludes to smear in the manual as "normal operation" turned me off.

Fact is; I didn't know what vertical smear was until I had this camera!

Shawn Mielke · September 18th, 2003, 01:05 AM

Smear occurs when the cam is pointed into a strong light source (the sun, bright pointy chandelier lights, and is especially accentuated, vertically, when you have a much darker foreground. With a little experimentation, and in more controlled shooting situations, this phenomena can successfully be avoided. Promise. But know yourself, how you shoot, etc.. If you're shooting happy go lucky outdoor home movies, or you really require the cam to do the work, then a cam with larger chips is the way to go. Naturally, they generally cost more, though the vx2000 and the dvc80 are fairly comparable in price. Smear tends to happen by degrees with the smaller chip cams, and the 950/pdx10 seem to have their fair share. But, my god, read around. Guys are sky and scuba diving with this cam. Our own Boyd Ostroff shoots with one for an opera company (paired with a vx2000). I recently shot with mine for seven hours in a classroom: one instance of smear; the light bulb seen through the side of the overhead projector created a vertical laser effect. I had another cam shooting the same basic area, so I'm covered. If you intend make a high pressure living in a variety of conditions with one PDX10, then reconsider your choices. If you have the time to constuct a work of art/product, or have the time to get to know it's limitations for certain future run and gun app.s, and every cam has them, much can be done with this piece of equipment. I would venture to say that this cam does exceedingly well when paired with a second piece. And do notice that "Vertical Smear: sounds like the worst skiing accident ever" was started by me. The PDX10 is also my first "real" cam, I'd heard about the smear, and set out to find it my first day. I found it, was alarmed, asked about it here, and continued shooting. I've hardly seen smear since. I recommend this camera, but do know what you need, if possible. The PDX10 is more specialized than a vx2000. Good luck,
Shawn

ps Must check out Boyd's stills somewhere around here. Good justice done.

Shawn Mielke · September 18th, 2003, 01:08 AM

ps I really really want a dvc80 to go with that pdx10. All donations are accepted.

Scott Plowman · September 18th, 2003, 07:56 PM

Allow me,

As no one i mean no one in the industry has taken the time to properly give a review of this camcorder.

I bought one blindly. This forum helped me in some ways because essentialy other than the 24p, cinegama and the like it is essentialythe same build.

In my opinion it is direct competition with the Sony PD150. The camera comes with a battery charger wheras the Sony lacks. The omni microphone on the DVC 80 is really nice.. it doesnt come with the directional shotgun mic.

B&H sells them for $2350. With the uni directional mic its $2500. The Sony PD 150 Sells for $3100.

I am somewhat of a novice so I cant go into great detail about comparisons and such. I know the gain is magnificent I know the construction seems to be great and extremely durable.

I have used a PD 150, I rented it for a weekend for my sisters wedding. It was a great camera. it seemed very durable as well. it was moreso ergonomic I think. It certainly been tried and tested for durability.

So i guess all i can do is continue using the DVC 80 and hope that the camera's durability meets up to the PD 150 comparitive challenge.

The DVC 80 is built like a lil tank.. It's stylish. And I think customers as i plan to shoot weddings etc. will percieve that im using professional equipment. The images it produces are great and certainly will please the discriminating user.

i recommend it from a novice prospective whatever thats worth. If anyone has any particular questions I will try my best to answer them.. Hope this helps some folks.. Thanks

Dennis Sladek · September 18th, 2003, 08:29 PM

I already owned the DVX100 and I recently bought the DVC80 and I'm not disappointed, especially for the price. The color is great, the feel is good and the price is right.

I bought both cameras from buydig.com and I was pleasantly pleased with their service and delivery time.

Scott Plowman · September 18th, 2003, 08:41 PM

didnt i read somewhere Buydig was a scam shop? If im worng i appologize i thought i read that somewhere.. be careful who you give your card # too i was taken advantage of for 2,00 it took me 5 weeks to get my money back.. 5 weeks i couldnt afford.. anxiety , stress, sleepness nights.. Not really trying to give them an advertisement here but i have made 4 purchases from B&H and not one issue.. professional timely service..

Mathew Evan · September 19th, 2003, 12:02 AM

Scott,

What kind of image presets are there on the dvc80? I own the dvx100 and have been overwhelmed by the image manipulation offered. Unfortunately some of it looks buggy to my eyes. The gamma is a little screwy IMO which is probably the cause of the highly visible image noise that a few of us have complained about. This is even at 0db gain which is not a good thing. How does the dvc80 compare say to the pd150 in low light? Do you notice a lot of picture noise even at low gain modes?

Scott Plowman · September 19th, 2003, 10:25 AM

To be honest sir...
There are sooooo many different functions on this camera i am overwhelmed.. I know it doesnt have the same functions as the DVX 100.. Cinegama, 30p and 24 p come to mind.. Otherwise it has the standard 60 I .. (interlaced) this is the standard that most folks use to do weddings and corporate and such..

The PD150 is very comparable in its capability.. Pany made the DVC 80 to compete with Sonys PD150.. Other than the fact that Sony takes some crappy quality stills at 1 megapixel or close to that range.. in a progressive mode. Its essentialy has the same capabilities.

The gain in low light is comparable.. Personally i like the picture better that i got from my DVC 80.. I did notice some graininess at highest setting in low light.. Which you will certainly get with any camera. Fact is: this camera will see things in the dark with the gain that the human eye cant really see.

Im not for sure if my settings were off when i used the PD150 or not.. I assume that i may have tweaked it and got an image that would be somewhat indistinguishable from the PD150 image.

Im still on a learning curve. Im a novice.. I could make most folks head swim that arent in the industry with all the technical jargon I have learned on this forum and others.. But if i were to chat with a pro.. It would be a learning experience for me.. Hope that helps some. If anyone has questions more specific Im willing to do a test or two and report back.. I am a busy person so I can deal with a few of them and it would be a learning experience for me as well.. Thanks

Sean R Allen · September 19th, 2003, 02:28 PM

"didnt i read somewhere Buydig was a scam shop?"

Buydig is NOT a scam shop, but as always do your research before buying.

Scott Plowman · September 19th, 2003, 03:19 PM

I went to buydig website.. No address of where they are located.. That worrys me.. Maybe its hidden soemwhere on their site.. This is not a good sign for anyone wanting to do business with any companies

They me reputable.. I tried to go back to where i thought i read the negative press and didnt find anything about them.. Mistake on my part.. I prefaced it as Im not sure..My intention was not to be slanderous..

September 18th, 2003, 01:05 AM	#37
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Smear occurs when the cam is pointed into a strong light source (the sun, bright pointy chandelier lights, and is especially accentuated, vertically, when you have a much darker foreground. With a little experimentation, and in more controlled shooting situations, this phenomena can successfully be avoided. Promise. But know yourself, how you shoot, etc.. If you're shooting happy go lucky outdoor home movies, or you really require the cam to do the work, then a cam with larger chips is the way to go. Naturally, they generally cost more, though the vx2000 and the dvc80 are fairly comparable in price. Smear tends to happen by degrees with the smaller chip cams, and the 950/pdx10 seem to have their fair share. But, my god, read around. Guys are sky and scuba diving with this cam. Our own Boyd Ostroff shoots with one for an opera company (paired with a vx2000). I recently shot with mine for seven hours in a classroom: one instance of smear; the light bulb seen through the side of the overhead projector created a vertical laser effect. I had another cam shooting the same basic area, so I'm covered. If you intend make a high pressure living in a variety of conditions with one PDX10, then reconsider your choices. If you have the time to constuct a work of art/product, or have the time to get to know it's limitations for certain future run and gun app.s, and every cam has them, much can be done with this piece of equipment. I would venture to say that this cam does exceedingly well when paired with a second piece. And do notice that "Vertical Smear: sounds like the worst skiing accident ever" was started by me. The PDX10 is also my first "real" cam, I'd heard about the smear, and set out to find it my first day. I found it, was alarmed, asked about it here, and continued shooting. I've hardly seen smear since. I recommend this camera, but do know what you need, if possible. The PDX10 is more specialized than a vx2000. Good luck, Shawn ps Must check out Boyd's stills somewhere around here. Good justice done. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

September 18th, 2003, 01:08 AM	#38
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	ps I really really want a dvc80 to go with that pdx10. All donations are accepted. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

September 15th, 2003, 11:53 AM	#31
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The zoom and focus readouts are missing from the display? Really? That's not good. The zoom readout isn't that big of a deal, because you always have the actual manual zoom ring you can look at and find out what position the zoom ring is at. The missing focus readout would be really disappointing, as that's one of the neatest features on the DVX100. Still, consider that the competition (GL2, PD150/170, VX2000, etc) don't have any sort of focus readout and it's not crippling, but certainly disappointing.

September 15th, 2003, 12:07 PM	#32
Joe Garnero Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 60	Yes, I suppose in that light it isn't such an omission. I guess I may have lost sight of my goal and budget and started comparing the dvc to the dvx , rather than the GL2! Thanks for the slap back to reality and I am going to give it a second look! I tried 2 GL2's from B&H and both had viewfinder problems. Canon suggested I send the camera to them for repair instead of returning it to B&H. I suggested they fix their production. That is why I began looking at the DVX then found the DVC-80. I really like the wide-angle lens and manual zoom capability! For the gl2 viewfinder issue see the gl2 forum "gl2 defects"

September 15th, 2003, 01:31 PM	#33
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : Still, consider that the competition (GL2, PD150/170, VX2000, etc) don't have any sort of focus readout -->>> FWIW, the PDX-10 has a focus readout (in meters), a zoom bar-graph and an exposure bar-graph. For some strange reason Sony decided to add the focus readout but not display the actual f-stop. Go figure...

September 15th, 2003, 02:10 PM	#34
Joe Garnero Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 60	Yeah, the PDX10 was my first pro investment but I had to return it because of the smear problems I constantly encountered. I didn't feel that constant worry about avoiding limitations of the equipment was in order. I decided to escalate my budget yet another notch to look at the GL2. My progression was: Canon ZR65 - handy and convenient but not practical for my taste Pana dv953 - great features and ergonomics, poor execution Sony PDX10 - poor balance, akward controls, vertical smear Canon GL2 - lousy viewfinder, lense a little long Pana DVX100 - Too expensive for a first timer (maybe). So my search continues... DVC80??? nothing in it's class

September 17th, 2003, 08:57 AM	#35
Cooleye Hu Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: china Posts: 30	hi joe, I am also interested in pdx10, would you please tell me how come you constantly have smear problem? under which condition ? thank you.

September 17th, 2003, 09:36 AM	#36
Joe Garnero Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 60	Use the search button at the top of this page and search for my name. Then select the thraed titled "vertical smear: sounds like a bad skiing accident". In that thread you'll find my post about my PDX10 experience. My conclusion was that after spending $1900 for a camera I should not have to be paranoid about scene content and bad side-effects. Sure there are work-arounds but I don't know them, and couldn't get those posted herein to work. The fact that Sony eludes to smear in the manual as "normal operation" turned me off. Fact is; I didn't know what vertical smear was until I had this camera!

September 18th, 2003, 07:56 PM	#39
Scott Plowman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Kansas City, Kansas, USA Posts: 85	Allow me, As no one i mean no one in the industry has taken the time to properly give a review of this camcorder. I bought one blindly. This forum helped me in some ways because essentialy other than the 24p, cinegama and the like it is essentialythe same build. In my opinion it is direct competition with the Sony PD150. The camera comes with a battery charger wheras the Sony lacks. The omni microphone on the DVC 80 is really nice.. it doesnt come with the directional shotgun mic. B&H sells them for $2350. With the uni directional mic its $2500. The Sony PD 150 Sells for $3100. I am somewhat of a novice so I cant go into great detail about comparisons and such. I know the gain is magnificent I know the construction seems to be great and extremely durable. I have used a PD 150, I rented it for a weekend for my sisters wedding. It was a great camera. it seemed very durable as well. it was moreso ergonomic I think. It certainly been tried and tested for durability. So i guess all i can do is continue using the DVC 80 and hope that the camera's durability meets up to the PD 150 comparitive challenge. The DVC 80 is built like a lil tank.. It's stylish. And I think customers as i plan to shoot weddings etc. will percieve that im using professional equipment. The images it produces are great and certainly will please the discriminating user. i recommend it from a novice prospective whatever thats worth. If anyone has any particular questions I will try my best to answer them.. Hope this helps some folks.. Thanks

September 18th, 2003, 08:29 PM	#40
Dennis Sladek Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 40	I already owned the DVX100 and I recently bought the DVC80 and I'm not disappointed, especially for the price. The color is great, the feel is good and the price is right. I bought both cameras from buydig.com and I was pleasantly pleased with their service and delivery time.

September 18th, 2003, 08:41 PM	#41
Scott Plowman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Kansas City, Kansas, USA Posts: 85	didnt i read somewhere Buydig was a scam shop? If im worng i appologize i thought i read that somewhere.. be careful who you give your card # too i was taken advantage of for 2,00 it took me 5 weeks to get my money back.. 5 weeks i couldnt afford.. anxiety , stress, sleepness nights.. Not really trying to give them an advertisement here but i have made 4 purchases from B&H and not one issue.. professional timely service..

September 19th, 2003, 12:02 AM	#42
Mathew Evan Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: United States Posts: 53	Scott, What kind of image presets are there on the dvc80? I own the dvx100 and have been overwhelmed by the image manipulation offered. Unfortunately some of it looks buggy to my eyes. The gamma is a little screwy IMO which is probably the cause of the highly visible image noise that a few of us have complained about. This is even at 0db gain which is not a good thing. How does the dvc80 compare say to the pd150 in low light? Do you notice a lot of picture noise even at low gain modes?

September 19th, 2003, 10:25 AM	#43
Scott Plowman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Kansas City, Kansas, USA Posts: 85	To be honest sir... There are sooooo many different functions on this camera i am overwhelmed.. I know it doesnt have the same functions as the DVX 100.. Cinegama, 30p and 24 p come to mind.. Otherwise it has the standard 60 I .. (interlaced) this is the standard that most folks use to do weddings and corporate and such.. The PD150 is very comparable in its capability.. Pany made the DVC 80 to compete with Sonys PD150.. Other than the fact that Sony takes some crappy quality stills at 1 megapixel or close to that range.. in a progressive mode. Its essentialy has the same capabilities. The gain in low light is comparable.. Personally i like the picture better that i got from my DVC 80.. I did notice some graininess at highest setting in low light.. Which you will certainly get with any camera. Fact is: this camera will see things in the dark with the gain that the human eye cant really see. Im not for sure if my settings were off when i used the PD150 or not.. I assume that i may have tweaked it and got an image that would be somewhat indistinguishable from the PD150 image. Im still on a learning curve. Im a novice.. I could make most folks head swim that arent in the industry with all the technical jargon I have learned on this forum and others.. But if i were to chat with a pro.. It would be a learning experience for me.. Hope that helps some. If anyone has questions more specific Im willing to do a test or two and report back.. I am a busy person so I can deal with a few of them and it would be a learning experience for me as well.. Thanks

September 19th, 2003, 02:28 PM	#44
Sean R Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: RTP, NC Posts: 66	"didnt i read somewhere Buydig was a scam shop?" Buydig is NOT a scam shop, but as always do your research before buying.

September 19th, 2003, 03:19 PM	#45
Scott Plowman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Kansas City, Kansas, USA Posts: 85	I went to buydig website.. No address of where they are located.. That worrys me.. Maybe its hidden soemwhere on their site.. This is not a good sign for anyone wanting to do business with any companies They me reputable.. I tried to go back to where i thought i read the negative press and didnt find anything about them.. Mistake on my part.. I prefaced it as Im not sure..My intention was not to be slanderous..