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Old October 21st, 2005, 02:29 PM   #1
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Is it time for Pre-order yet ? Or should we wait..

I have seen pre-orders from few websites and even on eBay at lower price, but the release date is not clear yet...

Do you think it is safe to pre-order the HVX200 or wait a little may be better ? Can we expect a flawless first batch of HVX ?

Also, how do you think Panasonic will handle the (high?) demand for this particular product ?
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Old October 21st, 2005, 03:31 PM   #2
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I wouldn't personally order one yet unless you're prepared to take a chance regarding some of the issues you've raised. That's a lot of money to spend on a product we haven't seen results from yet, and you have to figure out how you're going to capture the video if you plan to record anything besides DV. (The P2 memory is insanely expensive and the Firestore hard drive isn't due to ship until next March.) I'd say it's better to let TV stations and other early adopters put this camera through its paces before ordering one, so early next year would be about the soonest if you want to be on the safe side. (Assuming it even ships before then.)

By the way, my birthday is next March in case anyone wants to send me an HVX200 for testing... :-)
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Old October 21st, 2005, 06:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Miova
Do you think it is safe to pre-order the HVX200 or wait a little may be better ? Can we expect a flawless first batch of HVX ?
Being first always involves a level of risk, as those of us who bought the first batch of HD100's are discovering. I don't recall anyone complaining about issues with the first generation of DVXs or FX1s or Z1s though. There was an audio hiss in the first generation of PD150s. So, you'll have to consider how quickly you need something, and what your appetite is for working through potential "growing pains". However, tied in with your second question:
Quote:
Also, how do you think Panasonic will handle the (high?) demand for this particular product ?
Basically, if you want one anytime soon, you'd probably want to get on someone's list now. I'd recommend contacting DVInfo.net sponsor EVS -- EVS has a pre-order list and their entire allocation is pretty much spoken for, but there may still be some available. The good thing about the EVS list is they don't require a deposit.
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Old October 21st, 2005, 06:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw
The P2 memory is insanely expensive
Is it though?

A 4gb SanDisk Extreme III compact flash card carries a retail price of $799.95. A 4gb P2 card carries a retail price of $899.95 (at today's prices, remains to be seen as to what they'll be two months from now).

The SanDisk handles a transfer rate of 20 megabytes per second; the P2 card is four times as fast. Seems like not much more money, for a whole lot more speed.

The SanDisk's street price is around $450, but you can't compare that to the P2's price because we don't know what "street price" will be on the P2 card. At MSRP to MSRP, they're very, very comparably priced.

Of course, there are also a lot of cheap slow flash cards, but the cheaper they get the slower they are, and there comes a point where it's completely apples to kumquats. The Extreme III is just fast enough to handle the job (were someone to create a P2-to-CF adapter), so it seems most directly comparable. And at retail, it's just as expensive.
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Old October 21st, 2005, 09:24 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Barry Green
Is it though?
Well, I suppose that all depends on how deep your pockets are and what you're comparing to. Assuming the proposed price of ~$1700 for 8GB holds true initially, that's basically $200 PER MINUTE (!) of HD recording capacity. Compared to what most of us are used to paying for mainstream video recording options, that's pretty far out.
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Old October 21st, 2005, 11:35 PM   #6
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Can we expect full retail price (5995$ for the camera only) or "street price" will be available right on release date ?

I'm sorry, i am not familiar with Panasonic MSRP retail price v.s. Street price history.

Let's say i'll wait till march (by birthday either ;-) .. i don't think the HVX-200's price will drop to 5k street price (?)

Am i wrong ?


To be honest, i DON'T REALLY need this camera now... But you know how it is guys.... I DO like xmas gifts.

Ok, i'll wait then....



NO I WON'T!


Be patient little boy.


PLEEEAAAAAASEEE!!
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 12:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Green

The SanDisk's street price is around $450...
not sure if you can compare the two Barry...

a 4gig p2 card is not one memory chip its made up of four, it has 4 1 gig sd cards raided for performance

a Kingston 1GB 133x (20 megs per second) card that i use in my dslr cost me 107 bucks shipped...thats street price, kingston msrp is $124.00,
so 4 1gig sd cards are about $496 msrp, a 4gig p2 card is $900 msrp ..well not so fast that $404 dollars goes to cover the expense of the p2 enclosure...give me a break

panasonic should try and sell those puppies as cheap as possible to get users hooked...if the try and nickle and dime on the media here come the hacks...and i welcome them with open arms...

ohh and by the way that kingston card is no knock off, its the real deal high quality stuff in there...

4 gig p2 card should cost $400 (msrp per sd card 1gig 133xrated $124)
8 gig p2 card should cost $800 (msrp per sd card 2gig 133xrated $203)
16 gig p2 card should cost $2800 (pretec makes a 133xrated 4gig card $699msrp)
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 12:33 AM   #8
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Street price can be driven by demand, but it's not common for these cameras to come out at full MSRP. The Sony Z1 has a $5946 MSRP, but was available for $4900 from the first day. The JVC HD100 has an MSRP of $6295, but I doubt anyone in the US has paid more than $5500 for it. So, presumably, the HVX will also enjoy a discount from MSRP, but (as always) that remains to be seen. Some dealers are advertising pre-orders for less than MSRP.

Even though there will probably be a lower "street price" than MSRP, that street price will probably hold firm until pent-up demand is filled. Then, the longer it's out, the price would likely drift lower. The FX1 started out at $3699, then went to $3499, then $3299, and I just checked and B&H now has it at $3129. The Z1 hasn't been out as long, but it's come down from $4900 to $4699, and Zotz has advertised it at $4500 before.
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 12:58 AM   #9
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thats some MSRP drop $500 for a 4gig p2 card...i hope it will happen, lets see, someone mentioned a $240msrp at SATIS for a 4gigp2

but prices eventually will come down, the only doubt is how soon will larger capacities arrive at down to earth prices...a 16gig card is on its way no doubt thanks to pretec, but an 32gig p2 card? that might be a long way off from mainstream, as an 8gig sd still has not been invented yet...
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 01:05 AM   #10
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i'm definitively not heading for the Camera+2x8gb cards package @ 10k

It is well-knowned that memory price always drop after xmas rush. Anyway, memory price always drop, period. I think i can live for few months without shooting HD and just getting more familiar with the camera functions/feeling.
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 06:17 AM   #11
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I think we will see a slight price drop on P2-cards but I think it's more likely that the capacity will increase and the price stay about the same. As I recall the memory prices is about the same but the capacity has vastly grown.
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 03:12 PM   #12
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Are we too confident that memory capacity will always increase ? There is no physical limitation on how much memory you can put on such small item ? Can we really think about a futur that will use P2's 64gb, 128gb, 256gb cards ? I don't think we can rely on this for a moment, unless you're ready to wait for the HVX-500 SHD 1620p... and then... You'll need even much more memory. It's a never ending battle. Welcome to digital world.
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 08:09 PM   #13
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P2 vs other card prices and redundancy

Are the P2 SD cards raided similar to a +1 or a 0+1? If it is simply a +0, the SD cards inside better be pretty reliable. Because if one goes, you would loose everything. Ask any pro photographer who has lost an entire CF card's data and they are quite suspect of the technology without some redundancy to another card. Most event pro photographers use 1GB and smaller cards just so if they loose one card this minimizes the loss. So the question is are we paying a premium for P2 over similar sized and fast CF memory SD-ultra-III because there is redundancy? Or, is P2 simply just a proprietary format (with two times failure rate) leading to its high comparative price?

I think that for the masses to seriously think about using the HVX-200, that storage will have to to come down in price considerably. And I think that it will once the camera is released and out a couple of months. The P2 sounds like a great idea if it has both redundancy and speed and it is not double the price of similar memory. A hard drive recording system, being bulkier, and without any redundancy is not a great substitute either.

Most of us using mini-DV are used to having a few data dropouts now and then when capturing from tape. But all in all, tape has proved to be VERY reliable. Imagine if when we hit a dropout the rest, or maybe the entire tape became unusable and you will understand why redundancy is worth paying a premium for. So my question is if P2 has redundancy or not. If it does, it is probably a bargain now in comparison with other solid state memory cards. If not, this is a real concern to me.

Last edited by Mike Morrell; October 23rd, 2005 at 04:41 AM.
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 11:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Morrell
Are the P2 SD cards raided similar to a +1 or a 0+1?
Since there are 4 cards in them, I think it's pretty good guess it's a RAID 0+1 or similar.
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Old October 23rd, 2005, 04:47 AM   #15
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If p2's are 0+1 then this justifies the price being double of the other memory. And this was the right design.
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