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Old November 27th, 2005, 12:40 PM   #1
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HVX200 & 480/24p

I can understand why 1080p and 720p would appeal to most people in this forum. But for me - I export most of my stuff to the web, so larger formats such as 720 and 1080 don’t mean as much at this moment in time, but may in the future.

I am interested in the HVX-200 though, as I like the idea of the following –
- P2 workflow
- 4:2:2 color sampling
- shooting and editing in the DVCPRO HD/50/25 format as time permits
- the size of the camera
- Panasonic’s past ability to achieve “the film” look with their various settings (it was a tough choice between the XL2 and the DVX100a)
- Easing into the HD format as I can

So, if using this camera in the 480/24p mode, how much time would I have on one 8gig P2 card?

And the big follow up question to that - Would it be a waste to use the HVX200 to shoot primarilly in 480/24p?

{I found the times for other formats in Chris’s handy chart here - http://www.p2info.net/articles/misc/p2cardcaps.php but did not see the 480/24p mode listed}
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Old November 27th, 2005, 04:31 PM   #2
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Quote:
And the big follow up question to that - Would it be a waste to use the HVX200 to shoot primarilly in 480/24p?
Well the glass will certainly be sharper than the DVX, which is definitely not a bad thing when shooting 480.

This has probably been answered, but the HVX can record 480 24p (A) to a tape like the DVX, right?
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Old November 27th, 2005, 06:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Irwin
This has probably been answered, but the HVX can record 480 24p (A) to a tape like the DVX, right?
Yes it can record 480 24p to tape. It also can write DV to P2 if you like.

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Old November 27th, 2005, 06:50 PM   #4
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Just to make sure there is no confusion, the HVX will record DV to tape and DV only.

If you want 4:2:2 recording but want to stay in SD then you have the option to record DVCPro50 to P2 cards (or to some sort of DTE recorder).

DVCPro50 is a 50Mb/s format, so you should be able to fit roughly 20 minutes of DVCPro50 footage on an 8Gb P2 card.

(The following numbers are rough just to show you how to calculate it)

There are 8 bits per byte. So:

50Mb per second = 6.25MB per second

8GB = 8,000 MB

So:

8,000/6.25 = 1280 seconds worth of footage on an 8GB card.

1280 seconds = 21.33 minutes

(Roughly 20 Minutes).

Probably more detail than you needed, but hopefully you can extrapolate this to any other format you may want to shoot.
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Old November 27th, 2005, 07:24 PM   #5
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Panasonic documentation shows that the HVX200 will write DVCPRO25 / DV to P2.
Here's the list taken from:

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish...0%2findex.html

(approx. 32minutes/8GB P2) The chart they show has times for 2 8GB P2 cards.

DVCPRO/DV P2 :
480/60i
480/24p (over 60i)
480/24pA (over 60i)
480/30p (over 60i)


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Old November 28th, 2005, 02:16 AM   #6
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480/24p can be recorded in 16 ways on the HVX200:
16:9 4:2:2 DVCPRO50 to P2/firewire
4:3 4:2:2 DVCPRO50 to P2/firewire
16:9 4:1:1 DVCPRO25 to P2/firewire
4:3 4:1:1 DVCPRO25 to P2/firewire
16:9 4:1:1 DV to P2/firewire
4:3 4:1:1 DV to P2/firewire
16:9 4:1:1 DV to miniDV tape
4:3 4:1:1 DV to miniDV tape

That's 8 basic ways, and then you have to double it to factor in whether you're recording 24P 3:2, or 24PA 2:3:3:2 pulldown. So yes, there will be plenty of ways to record standard-def 24p!

As far as storage space, the standard-def formats take up exactly the same amount of space no matter what frame rate you shoot them at: DV and DVCPRO25 take up 25 megabits per second, and DVCPRO50 takes up 50 megabits per second, whether you're shooting 24P, 24PA, 30P or 60i.

On an 8gb card, you'll get 32 minutes of DV or DVCPRO25, and 16 minutes of DVCPRO50.

Quote:
Would it be a waste to use the HVX200 to shoot primarilly in 480/24p?
A waste? Well, if all you want is 480/24p, why would it be a waste? You'd be getting a camera that's essentially a DVX100B (arguably the best, most filmlike 480/24p camera in the "prosumer" price class) but with even more features: a longer zoom range, a wider wide-angle, a sharper lens, native 16:9 chips, more image control settings, tapeless recording, and -- if you use P2 cards, you'll have access to one of the best standard-def recording formats ever offered, DVCPRO50. I wouldn't call that a "waste", I'd say instead that it's promising to be one of the best standard-def camcorders around.

And, let's not forget that if you choose to shoot DV, but you get at least one P2 card for "special effects", you can shoot with all the variable frame rates of 720p (from 12 up to 60 fps) and the camera will downconvert to DV while preserving the 24p time base -- so you'll get the sweet 60fps slow motion effect even in your standard-def DV project! (it just requires you to record the variable-frame-rate stuff to P2 first).

People are excited about high-def, sure -- but for the next several years, maybe five years, the prevailing distribution medium is still standard-def DVD. If the footage delivers on the promises that are being made, the HVX will likely prove to be the camera capable of making the best-looking DVDs.
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Old November 28th, 2005, 06:11 AM   #7
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Thank You

I appreciate everyone's answers to my questions. I'm looking forward to seeing the footage/opinions in this forum when the HVX200 begins shipping. I appreciate everyone listing out the other benefits of the HVX200 for shooting in 480/24p mode. I've been considering purchasing a DVX100B to have as a second camera that would be more portable, but it looks like I should hold off on that until the HVX200 is available.

I will be doing some greenscreen work in the near future and have read about the HVX200's favorable greenscreen performance in the "First shoot in U.S. with HVX200 now underway" thread. So that would be another good reason to go the HVX200 route.
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