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Old April 21st, 2011, 06:19 PM   #91
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

To the contrary. You recognize my opinions because they are expressed as such. My point to you is that you often express your opinion as if it were fact. As a DVInfo sponsor and dealer of Comer equipment, I would expect you to be more careful about criticising your competitor's products/pricing and representing yourself as an expert in lighting. But that is just my opinion. ;-)
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Old April 21st, 2011, 06:41 PM   #92
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

I clearly said I don't agree with your opinion but I respect everybody's right to share their thought. =)

I think that is very unfair of you saying I representing myself as an expert in lighting. I am never a lighting expert and I never claim I am one. I'm a wedding videographer. What I share was my experience with the lighting equipment that I owned and used in weddings (LP Micro, CN160, Z96, Comer). Those lux output, spread angle and color temperature specs are FACTS. How I find LP Micro is an overprice and a weak light is my OPINION. I am entitled to my own opinion but I didn't make up facts.

Regarding shooting with 4500K, that is from my own experience and I have video to prove they work. If you don't agree, then don't do it. For people reading info on DVinfo (or anything being read on the internet), it's their own responsibility to filter and to judge if information is useful to them. Of course we should be leaving correct information, but everything I said so far including "I use 4500K", "4500K is perfectly fine to be used indoor as well as outdoor." are correct information.

Still, be clear what is "opinion" and what is "fact".
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Old April 21st, 2011, 07:05 PM   #93
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Now I think it's pretty cool people think I'm a lighting expert! hehe =D
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Old April 21st, 2011, 07:29 PM   #94
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

@Taky, These online debates are uninteresting. I will give you some slack...english isn't your first language. Read my post again. It says you represent yourself as an expert. It's good you said that you aren't. If someone thinks you are, then that adds strength to what I said. Also, it would only be cool if it were 5600K. Haha
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Old April 21st, 2011, 07:41 PM   #95
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Debate and sane discussion is good, always good. It's not good when the topic switch from color temperature to one's personal character. That's just not 5600K cool. =) But thanks for thinking of me as a lighting expert (I think you are the only one who did). ..I'm solly.
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Old April 21st, 2011, 07:45 PM   #96
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taky Cheung View Post
I use 4500K both indoor and outdoor without any gel.

I have another video here for our CM 5500 light (5500 lux). It can perform variable color temperature between 3200K to 5600K. You can see the comparsion to see 4500K is perfectly fine to be used indoor as well as outdoor.

Comer CM-LED5500K Illumination and Color Temperature on Vimeo
Taky, just a quick suggestion on your lighting samples...
I know you mentioned that you're not a lighting expert, but you might try shooting your samples where the lighting is more evenly balanced. On a lot of your samples, it seems that the subject is blown out as your key light is always is too hot.

I know that you're trying to show the power of the lights. But if you show how the lights can be used in a real world environment properly and balance the lighting out more. Then it would showcase your lights in a better light.

No pun intended. =)
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Old April 21st, 2011, 07:53 PM   #97
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Michael, thanks and that's real good suggestion. I shot the Comer 5500 light demo the second day I have the light. I don't know enough about the characteristics of it. For one thing I want to do (like you said) is to show how strong the output is. Since I'm not an expert, I will learn and improve. =)

We sold a lot of the Comer 5500 at the NAB show last week. I guess it's more appealing to see it in person.
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Old April 22nd, 2011, 03:27 AM   #98
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Guys .... if I use Comer 1800 and I want a colder shot in day light is not it possible to add an additional filter on Comer 1800 to correct the different gradations of ligh? Then ... it is possible to configure the videocamera for getting colder shots. I think 4500k is not a problem too much big. Do I make a mistake?
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Last edited by Adriano Moroni; April 22nd, 2011 at 06:09 AM.
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Old April 22nd, 2011, 05:40 AM   #99
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wilson View Post
@Taky, These online debates are uninteresting. I will give you some slack...english isn't your first language. Read my post again. It says you represent yourself as an expert. It's good you said that you aren't. If someone thinks you are, then that adds strength to what I said. Also, it would only be cool if it were 5600K. Haha
Les I don't want to spark up the debate again but you have a very aggressive stance and a few slippery slopes in your arguments, no need to get personal. Taky never said shoot 4500K at a 2700K tribal camp fire, haha, common sense usually prevails here. In general a 4500K is a good overall colour temperature to have, if you are shooing outside in 5600K sunlight the LED won't really make much of a dent compared to the sun anyway. Forums are not Wikies but a platform for discussion & opinions. Personally I find that 5600K LEDs are too blue for many daylight situations & the 3200K gels for indoor filming don't look great either, 4500K is a nice balance, a person will be using the light indoors mostly.
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Old April 22nd, 2011, 07:35 AM   #100
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Adriano,
Do you remember what the lighting was when you shot this? The skin looks a little yellow and that's a sign of daylight lighting shot on a camera set for indoor (Tungsten) lighting.
My unpublished documentaries (indigenous peoples)

In post #85, I made the point that when you have an 4500K light like the Comer 1800 and you want to shoot in daylight, you gel it to make it match the existing lighting and that reduces the amount of light.

Similarly, when you are indoors and you want to match the indoor lighting, you gel the 4500K to match the existing light which also reduces the light output. So in both cases, you are gelling to match existing light and in both cases reducing the amount of light. I wanted you to be aware that if you care about mixing light, you will be gelling in both cases and reducing the light output in both cases. That was my point.

It's good to care about color temperature. Mixing light temperature can make your footage look bad...especially with skin tones. Whatever lighting you setup, doing a white balance in your camera is a must but mixed lighting means the parts of the picture that have light from a light at a color temperature different from what your camera is set to, will be off. I know that when doing in-country shooting, sometimes you can't do a white balance and so being able to dial the light temperature to the existing light will give you even lighting which gives the best results. That is why I suggested looking the Lowel Blender for an on-camera light that lets you adjust the temperature and also has a dimmer to adjust the output.
Lowel Blender LED 1-Light Kit (120VAC/12VDC) BLN-9145LB B&H


Nick,
I hear you. Please interpret my positions as passion about good documentary lighting. Post #90 is a personal attack on me and later posts put words in my mouth I didn't say. #94 is my attempt to give grace and to diffuse with humor to no avail... the misrepresentation/attack continued.

To your point, I objected to the response to my post #85 when it was said in post #86 "4500K is perfectly fine to be used indoor as well as outdoor" as if it were fact. It wasn't stated as "I think 4500k is perfectly fine". Are there situations you can make it work? Yes. Is it "Perfectly fine" for Adriano? I think it is not fine and am concerned that it was bad advice or just a Comer dealer just pushing a product. In either case, I felt Adriano should know that.

I've done "in-country" shooting and experienced the difficulties lighting in those environments. I think saying "4500K is perfectly fine to be used indoor as well as outdoor" is bad advice to Adriano. If you want great documentary footage in 3rd world environments, paying attention to color temperature will give the best results. Compromising to mixed lighting can, of course, be managed if you have to but I would always opt for matched lighting over mixed lighting whenever I could. But that's me. YMMV.
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Old April 22nd, 2011, 07:53 AM   #101
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Les,
you are right, I agree with you but.... you have to agree with me too when I will use Comer 1800 I will often use my camera with automatic white ballance. Therefore, I think, the problem will disappear. I think so.
Then .... often I shot on afternoon or on sunsite and the problem disappear, I think. Nobody shots with under favourable conditions of day light. Daylight changes colormetry many times during a day. It can be 7000 or 8000 and also 10000 K but also 4500K. I think!
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Old April 22nd, 2011, 09:12 AM   #102
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Adriano,
You are correct. Lighting from the sun has color temperature changes depending on where you are (desert, shade, indoors...).

But let me be clear. Shooting 4500K and using auto white balance does not make the problems of mixed lighting disappear. The goal is to have all the light sources close to the same temperature as much as possible and avoid mixing lights of different temperature. This is the advantage of a light that lets you adjust the temperature. You can at least match your light to the other major lights in the scene instead of introducing a second or third temperature. Gelling whatever light you use will also help. If it's important to you, look at how hard or easy it is to gel the light as you shop for one. I asked that exact question about the Sola 3.

When different parts of a frame are lit at different temperatures by different lights, your camera's Auto WB picks a color temperature that is some average it calculates and uses that. The further away from that temperature something is lit, the more wrong it will appear. On a bad day, only a small part will be right and much will be wrong. When you have mixed lighting and you try to color correct the wrong parts in editing, the right parts then go bad.

I just want you to understand the issues. I can't say for sure but this example on your site seems to have even lighting whereas the other example has very different lighting temperatures:
My unpublished documentaries (indigenous peoples)
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Old April 22nd, 2011, 12:45 PM   #103
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

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Originally Posted by Taky Cheung View Post
Michael, thanks and that's real good suggestion. I shot the Comer 5500 light demo the second day I have the light. I don't know enough about the characteristics of it. For one thing I want to do (like you said) is to show how strong the output is. Since I'm not an expert, I will learn and improve. =)

We sold a lot of the Comer 5500 at the NAB show last week. I guess it's more appealing to see it in person.
Taky, just remember that since these lights are dimmable then intensity really isn't a huge factor as much as how they function in real world environments.

For indoor studio shots like your examples proper lighting is more of a need than intensity, especially with studio lights like the LED5500. Even outdoors the lighting with the LED5500 was too strong as your models sin tones were blown out.

Now with the Comer 1800, strength is a feature that viable for field use, but show samples of it in the field (your weddings) and again if you shoot at close range dim the light accordingly.

Even though I love the intensity of the Comer 1800, I rarely use it at full blast at a reception, but rather dim the light to balance out my subject and environment.

Oh, and can you talk to Comer to see if they can develop a light similar to the LED5500 but a smaller version like the Coolights LED256. I love using my LED256's in the field, and use them all of the time at receptions. But I hate my current solution of running a large Bescor battery belt into the light, just so I can setup a remote control lighting rig.

I would love to have a small form factor light like the LED256 that is remote controllable. As this would make my kit perfect for filed use, as I hate lugging around 40 lbs. in battery belts. =)
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Old April 22nd, 2011, 03:29 PM   #104
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Re: Litepanels LP-Micro

Michael V-Mount batteries work quite well & are very compact for LED's I have a 600 LED (China brand) that gives me 3 hours of full power operation on a 90Wh battery.
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