cosmetic commercial at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Photon Management
Shine an ever-loving light on you.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 14th, 2008, 12:25 PM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
cosmetic commercial

I'm supposed to produce a cosmetic commercial. I've been studying a lot of print media and the norm is this pearly white background. sometimes light blue. Anyone ever lit one? Looking for pointers for creating the most flattering light. Skin must look smooth and perfect. I'm figuring I will do it with a greenscreen.
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2008, 04:08 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canberra Australia
Posts: 227
Make sure you don't get any green reflection on to the skin if you are using green screen - it's not a very flattering look.
You would probably be better off with a white cyc and add a little blue light to it. A blue background helps make skin tone appear warm and glowing.
For the subject use large reflected/bounced light
Rohan Dadswell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2008, 02:59 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan Dadswell View Post
Make sure you don't get any green reflection on to the skin if you are using green screen - it's not a very flattering look.
You would probably be better off with a white cyc and add a little blue light to it. A blue background helps make skin tone appear warm and glowing.
For the subject use large reflected/bounced light
Is the reason to use a white cyc instead of green the spill?
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2008, 06:13 AM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 1,383
Why go through the extra steps of green screen?
If you need it on a white background just shoot it on a white background.
David W. Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2008, 12:55 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by David W. Jones View Post
Why go through the extra steps of green screen?
If you need it on a white background just shoot it on a white background.
Because it creates many more options.
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2008, 03:16 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 110
and headaches.
Gary Moses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2008, 09:09 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Moses View Post
and headaches.
What kind have you had Gary? I don't have too much experience with it.
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2008, 10:33 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,069
If your talent is not moving too much (screen is only 7x7) and is not wearing glasses, the ReflecMedia ChromaFlex system is small, light and a complete no brainer, ANYONE can obtain perfect keys with no heat, quick setup and no spill or reflection of green onto talent. About $2,500.00. I use one every week, works great.

Downside is if talent is wearing glasses, you see the green reflection of the ring light in their glasses and its a PITA to fix, although we do it all of the time.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2008, 11:07 PM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Luce View Post
I'm supposed to produce a cosmetic commercial. I've been studying a lot of print media and the norm is this pearly white background. sometimes light blue. Anyone ever lit one? Looking for pointers for creating the most flattering light. Skin must look smooth and perfect. I'm figuring I will do it with a greenscreen.
Step 1: Hire a stunning model around 12 years old (pre-acne stage is critical) so you START with a base of flawless skin.

Step 2: Hire a professional makeup artist who REALLY knows what they're doing. (If they're really, really, really good, you can actually hire a 20-something model, cuz they'll know how to make a 20 year old look like she has 12 year old skin!)

Step 3: Hire a REALLY good lighting director, gaffer, and grip. Listen to what the LD tells you they need. And if he or she says they need a two 6 by silks, a 10 inch long strip of Alcoa aluminum foil and a slice of Wonder wheat bread, shut up and GET them a two 6 by silks, the foil, and the bread.

Step 4: Get out of everyone's way.

That's pretty much the recipe I'd use in that kind of situation.

FWIW

:)
Bill Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2008, 11:50 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Brockett View Post
...downside is if talent is wearing glasses, you see the green reflection of the ring light in their glasses and its a PITA to fix, although we do it all of the time.

Dan
How exactly do you fix that reflection? I have simply desaturated the reflection, which helps... but it's no fix. I'm curious what your solution is.
Robert Huber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2008, 10:50 AM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 110
Green screen is not is not a fix but in fact a tool to be used only if you need to replace the background. As the posts from Dan and Bill have indicted green screen add the model must be carefully crafted.
My suggestion is to pay all of your attention to lighting your model and making your product (the cosmetic) look absolutely perfect. After all, the background is a background and you shouldn't draw attention away from your product/model.
Gary Moses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2008, 11:27 AM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Huber View Post
How exactly do you fix that reflection? I have simply desaturated the reflection, which helps... but it's no fix. I'm curious what your solution is.
Hi Robert:

I am in the middle of doing this on a show about Asian American film stereotypes that I am producing for Paramount. Two of our four interviews we shot on greenscreen wore glasses. The way we we have been fixing it is to use a travel matte of white or light gray that is tracked in a layer behind the talent's head.

If you don't do this, you will have a hole in the glasses that will show through to whatever your BG element is. So we add another layer with the white/gray, just behind the talent's head, motion track it to make sure that it doesn't peak around the edge of their head as they move and then do a separate matte pass to key through to the white/gray. In this way, the reflection ends up looking like a light reflection. If you do it right, it is pretty seamless and organic looking. It is just a PITA because of motion tracking and rendering the whole thing out, tweaking it. It helps if the interviewee isn't moving their head all over the place.

I have been shooting tests using green-foam backed material that www.filmtools sells and lighting that up with two of the Flolight 500 LED lights. Tests so far have shown that it produces a better looking key than the ChromaFlex, but it also requires a LOT more room to do it. It takes longer to setup and requires more gear. So basically, without glasses, still love the ChromaFlex. With glasses, need to use the LEDs and light up a real greenscreen. If we have room, which often times we don't.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2008, 12:24 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Brockett View Post
Hi Robert:

I am in the middle of doing this on a show about Asian American film stereotypes that I am producing for Paramount. Two of our four interviews we shot on greenscreen wore glasses. The way we we have been fixing it is to use a travel matte of white or light gray that is tracked in a layer behind the talent's head.

If you don't do this, you will have a hole in the glasses that will show through to whatever your BG element is. So we add another layer with the white/gray, just behind the talent's head, motion track it to make sure that it doesn't peak around the edge of their head as they move and then do a separate matte pass to key through to the white/gray. In this way, the reflection ends up looking like a light reflection. If you do it right, it is pretty seamless and organic looking. It is just a PITA because of motion tracking and rendering the whole thing out, tweaking it. It helps if the interviewee isn't moving their head all over the place.


Dan
Thank you for that, Dan.

If you don't mind, I am not sure I understand this part: "then do a separate matte pass to key through to the white/gray"

At first, I thought you were just allowing the initial key to key out the reflection on the glasses along with the blue/green background allowing the tracked gray/white layer take its placee. Did I missunderstand that step?

Thanks again for sharing your experience on this.
Robert Huber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
Step 1: Hire a stunning model around 12 years old (pre-acne stage is critical) so you START with a base of flawless skin.

Step 2: Hire a professional makeup artist who REALLY knows what they're doing. (If they're really, really, really good, you can actually hire a 20-something model, cuz they'll know how to make a 20 year old look like she has 12 year old skin!)

Step 3: Hire a REALLY good lighting director, gaffer, and grip. Listen to what the LD tells you they need. And if he or she says they need a two 6 by silks, a 10 inch long strip of Alcoa aluminum foil and a slice of Wonder wheat bread, shut up and GET them a two 6 by silks, the foil, and the bread.

Step 4: Get out of everyone's way.

That's pretty much the recipe I'd use in that kind of situation.

FWIW

:)
I have the model, the make up girl, no budget for Conrad Hall though. :(
Attached Thumbnails
cosmetic commercial-ps2.jpg  
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2008, 07:23 PM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Huber View Post
Thank you for that, Dan.

If you don't mind, I am not sure I understand this part: "then do a separate matte pass to key through to the white/gray"

At first, I thought you were just allowing the initial key to key out the reflection on the glasses along with the blue/green background allowing the tracked gray/white layer take its placee. Did I missunderstand that step?

Thanks again for sharing your experience on this.
Hi Robert:

Our on-line editor is doing this on an AVID Nitris Symphony, I can have you talk to him if you want details but unless you are doing this on a Symphony, you might do it differently.

I think it might depend on the compositing application you are using as how to best solve this issue. If it were me doing it, I would use Motion and probably DV Garage but the production company I am shooting for is all AVID.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:50 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network