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Old January 27th, 2007, 06:09 PM   #1
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Ducks

Check out a few short movies I've put together.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=stage5NOS

VX2000.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 03:11 PM   #2
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Alex, I'm wondering why you want us to watch these videos. There's really nothing here for us to "sink our teeth" into, from a videography standpoint. They are pretty basic home-movie style clips from car shows and drag races. The endless burnout clip is especailly mindless and utilizes no editing techniques whatsoever. What kind of feedback were you looking for?
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Old February 13th, 2007, 11:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pulcinella
Alex, I'm wondering why you want us to watch these videos. There's really nothing here for us to "sink our teeth" into, from a videography standpoint. They are pretty basic home-movie style clips from car shows and drag races. The endless burnout clip is especailly mindless and utilizes no editing techniques whatsoever. What kind of feedback were you looking for?
Well...everyone has an opinion and I appreciate yours...I saw the Raising The Bar video files and I really liked them (the naration was outstanding)...great work with Raising The Bar...

I also saw this clip you made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCMWtXXG98Q

You refer to my footage as home-made but I think that burnout video was a lot less shakier than your shots in the Youtube clip above...it may not utilize editing but it does utilize OIS and a shoulder mount :) (by the way that was shot with a GS300 3CCD unit).


Take the video Marching Ducks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu_B5yPl6D8
In this video I used the following broadcast shots:

1. Soft Focus.
2. Depth of Field.
3. Low shot.
4. Linking shot.
5. Wide Shot.
6. Opposite shot.

So in that 1 minute a 10 seconds I've used 6 types of broadcasting shots.
That pretty much says it all.

By the way after I shot the movies you saw on Youtube I purchased a copy of Advanced Broadcast Techniques Vol 1 and 2 by John Cooksey from Elite Video so I can learn about other shots besides the 6 I already knew and mentioned above. Sure enough in the first DVD John talks about the my 6 shots. So I must be doing something right if Jon Cooksey talks about the same type of shots in his best seller DVDs.


I don't mind criticism if it's specific (like tell me what I did wrong so I can fix it type of stuff)...but if you say my stuff is home-movie type of stuff and I can show 6 broadcast shots in a 1 minute video I have to say that it is in now way home-movie style...That is like saying that the broadcast shots we see on ABC,NBC, etc every night are "home-movie" shots....I can go on this subject for a while but I won't...

I look forward to see more Raising The Bar footage.

Last edited by Alex Amira; February 13th, 2007 at 11:43 PM.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 09:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Amira
Well...everyone has an opinion and I appreciate yours...I saw the Raising The Bar video files and I really liked them (the naration was outstanding)...great work with Raising The Bar...

I also saw this clip you made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCMWtXXG98Q

You refer to my footage as home-made but I think that burnout video was a lot less shakier than your shots in the Youtube clip above...it may not utilize editing but it does utilize OIS and a shoulder mount :) (by the way that was shot with a GS300 3CCD unit).


Take the video Marching Ducks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu_B5yPl6D8
In this video I used the following broadcast shots:

1. Soft Focus.
2. Depth of Field.
3. Low shot.
4. Linking shot.
5. Wide Shot.
6. Opposite shot.

So in that 1 minute a 10 seconds I've used 6 types of broadcasting shots.
That pretty much says it all.

By the way after I shot the movies you saw on Youtube I purchased a copy of Advanced Broadcast Techniques Vol 1 and 2 by John Cooksey from Elite Video so I can learn about other shots besides the 6 I already knew and mentioned above. Sure enough in the first DVD John talks about the my 6 shots. So I must be doing something right if Jon Cooksey talks about the same type of shots in his best seller DVDs.


I don't mind criticism if it's specific (like tell me what I did wrong so I can fix it type of stuff)...but if you say my stuff is home-movie type of stuff and I can show 6 broadcast shots in a 1 minute video I have to say that it is in now way home-movie style...That is like saying that the broadcast shots we see on ABC,NBC, etc every night are "home-movie" shots....I can go on this subject for a while but I won't...

I look forward to see more Raising The Bar footage.
You're right Alex, I was too quick with you and I apologize if I offended you. I'll be more specific.

No one cares if you have used textbook perfect camerawork if your finished product is boring. In fact, it wasn't the camerawork that I was criticizing in the burnout video when I said that it felt homemade, it was the editing, or lack thereof that made it seem amateurish. So much so that it made me wonder what we were supposed to critique. My suggestion for something like that would be to have another camera shoot the burnout from another angle and intercut the two together. If that's not possible, then shoot a second burnout, even of a different car, very close up so that you can't tell that it's a different car and then can cut away and make it seem like you had two cameras. Shoot the crowd reactions at other times during the day and cut away to them as well. No one needs to know that it didn't all happen at the same time. You are creating the illusion that it did. I use that technique all the time. It takes a little foresight and editing work but it's worth it.

I watched the ducks video and I will admit that you know how to do your broadcast shots. However, the editing of this seems arbitrary and does not flow. I think that you are so excited by the mere fact that you are able grasp the technical aspects of videography that you are neglecting to notice the more subtle art of editing. May I suggest a non-technical book? Read "In the Blink of an Eye" by Walter Murch. That will give you a good understand of what editing actually is. It is not merely the stringing together of disparate clips. There is a rhyme and reason to it that works on the subconcious level.

Lastly, don't compare yourself to the evening news. News shows are shot and edited very quickly and are often not state of the art. Rather, watch a show called My Classic Car on the Speed network or Spike TV. Watch how the camera moves and how it is edited and then watch one of your videos and see if you can see the difference. If you want to continue the discussion I can be more detailed about specific editing choices you have made that I personally object to. All of this is IMO, of course.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 01:48 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Michael Pulcinella
I can be more detailed about specific editing choices you have made that I personally object to. All of this is IMO, of course.
I'd be interested in that.

The Burnout video was just shot and no editing (I added a wipe) was done to it. I quickly discovered that for cars you need different angles (as you mentioned)and started using that in future videos. Unfortunately I was in the stands ($$$ for press pass...more than it was worth IMO) so I could only get that angle and used my shoulder mount.

Since I've shot the Burnout video I've moved on and use my steady cam at all the car shows.

I've put together 2 short videos (less than 30 sec each) of car footage using my steady cam. Check them out and let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooBaSpajHA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JGvGRCboeA

I was wondering if you have heard of Creative Editing (4 VHS tapes) by BBC (released 1990)?. I've rented this and started to watch it in order to learn more about editing.

All the best.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 02:40 PM   #6
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I uploaded the videos at DivX Stage6 since it has a much better quality than Youtube:

http://stage6.divx.com/content/show/...user_id=513737

http://stage6.divx.com/content/show/...user_id=513737
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Old February 15th, 2007, 02:50 AM   #7
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you have made my favorite videos about ducks, ever. thank you.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 05:50 AM   #8
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There is one thing I think is a big issue with your videos. It is almost two things but they are interrelated. In many of your car videos, you repeat almost the exact same shot about three times in a row. You sometimes do it more than once in a video. On the opposite end, you are missing shots that I was hoping to see. You started to get the idea with your steadycam footage, but I think the repeat shots were still there. I like how you sweep along the car, but don't do it on one side then show the exact same shot from the other side of the car. Cars are mostly symmetrical, so the shot just looks like a mirror of the previous shot. The shots you are missing are what real car nuts will not forgive. You should show more of the interior and the engine. Car buffs are fanatical in their attention to detail, and you seemed to omit that except for a few shots in your steadycam videos.

Try this:

1. Think of all the interesting aspects of a particular car. All special engine mods or unique customizations should get special treatment.

2. Take wide, medium, and close shots of all those parts from different angles.

3. Take shots that put all those parts together. Obviously, the sweep along the side covers a lot. I really like the shot that moves from the front chrome up over the bumper and into the engine compartment or trunk.

4. Without duplicating shots, tell the story of that car. Why should the viewer be interested in the car? Answer that question with video. Don't just stand back with the camera and assume people will be in awe of a fancy car. Tell the story of that car with video.

I really did like the video of the ducks. The long shots with ducks in the foreground and background were great. Getting down on their level really was nice. I'm really surprised they allowed you to get that close without either flying away or coming up and begging for food.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 07:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Gillane
you have made my favorite videos about ducks, ever. thank you.
Thank you Sean. I'm glad you enjoy them.

I will post more soon...
There are a lot of them (ducks) where I live so I always get footage. Even in the winter (as you saw in the videos) they stick around.

I reallt enjoy putting together the duck videos and I'm glad to see people enjoy watching them.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 07:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault
There is one thing I think is a big issue with your videos. It is almost two things but they are interrelated. In many of your car videos, you repeat almost the exact same shot about three times in a row. You sometimes do it more than once in a video. On the opposite end, you are missing shots that I was hoping to see. You started to get the idea with your steadycam footage, but I think the repeat shots were still there. I like how you sweep along the car, but don't do it on one side then show the exact same shot from the other side of the car. Cars are mostly symmetrical, so the shot just looks like a mirror of the previous shot. The shots you are missing are what real car nuts will not forgive. You should show more of the interior and the engine. Car buffs are fanatical in their attention to detail, and you seemed to omit that except for a few shots in your steadycam videos.

Try this:

1. Think of all the interesting aspects of a particular car. All special engine mods or unique customizations should get special treatment.

2. Take wide, medium, and close shots of all those parts from different angles.

3. Take shots that put all those parts together. Obviously, the sweep along the side covers a lot. I really like the shot that moves from the front chrome up over the bumper and into the engine compartment or trunk.

4. Without duplicating shots, tell the story of that car. Why should the viewer be interested in the car? Answer that question with video. Don't just stand back with the camera and assume people will be in awe of a fancy car. Tell the story of that car with video.

I really did like the video of the ducks. The long shots with ducks in the foreground and background were great. Getting down on their level really was nice. I'm really surprised they allowed you to get that close without either flying away or coming up and begging for food.
The ducks are really friendly and will come up to you without any hesitation.

Good call on the duplication shots.

The duplication of the shots is definetley something I have to work on.
I think once I started using the steadycam and "flying" around the cars like the Chevelle video and the Corvette I realized that I cannot show more than 1 minute + of one care without duplicating the shots. So I think then next time I go to a car show I will have to spend less time on each car but get a large number of cars on video then I can make a video compilation.

I agree the shot where the camera moves from the bumper to the trunk and engine was my favorite shot(s) too. Thanks.

One thing I like to point out is that these videos are cut down versions due to Youtube. I will try to upload a few of the longer car videos (I did a 10 minute video on a Ford). Actually I will upload some stuff from the DVDs I made for my car collector friends (I wish I had their money)....I cut it down to 10 minutes from 1 hour of footage for each car and they all loved it and paid me quite well for it (even with me moving to a different state I get calls to make more DVDs)...I just have to figure out a way of putting that online...maybe stage6.divx is where I can stick them.....


Thanks for the input....I will defineteley incorporate the 4 things you mentioned the next time I do a car show.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 02:04 PM   #11
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Marcus pretty much covers in his post the main problems with many of your clips. I'd like to dissect one of them so that you can see specifically what we are talking about.

Let's use the Chevell SS clip...

The music is fine, though a bit overly dramatic for my taste, and the first swooping shot along the side is fine. Then you begin to tease and tease with no payoff.

First we come swooping in from the driver's side. Are we going to see into the engine? No, not yet, because now we are swooping in along the other side. It looks like we're going to see the interior...but no. Now we are swooping in from the back to look into the trunk and just as we are about to get there you have a jump cut and a swoop from a slightly different angle. Very disconcerting and rough and yet we still get no time to linger inside the trunk to see what's going on in there, if anything, because we are swooping toward the open engine compartment again. Maybe now we'll see what this baby has under its hood! We're almost there and suddenly we are 15 feet away for no apparent reason and then we are back at the engine but not long enough to see any details and now we are swooping again along the same side we did before. Will we see the interior this time?? I hope so! Sorry, out of luck and out of time because the clip has ended without ever giving us a really good look at this very cool car.

Do you see what I mean?

You are obviously very excited about your steadycam work, and rightfully so. But all art needs contrast and I would begin by suggesting that you intersperse some tripod shots in among the steadycam shots. How about three quick motionless shots in a row, preferably closeups of details the engine or interior...boom boom boom, and then a nice fluid moving shot to break things up? Still, still, still...moving...exterior front, side and back then swoop...and so on. Swoop into the engine and stop there for a while so we can see inside. Also, try to contrast fast moving with slow moving shots once in a while.

Although our subject matter is completely different, notice how in the Raising the Bar 2 clip I try to vary the kinds of shots throughtout the piece. It's not a perfect edit, but I think it demonstrates some of what I am talking about and try to do with my work.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5q2rd0dBc1Q

Mike
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Old February 16th, 2007, 02:54 AM   #12
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I like Michael's suggestions. Break it up.

"I realized that I cannot show more than 1 minute + of one care without duplicating the shots."

I disagree. Yes, it is difficult to make a single inanimate object remain interesting for a long time, but there are so many aspects of cars that you are missing. Think of the little things. Take some really tight shots of engine components and interior details. Car buffs are fanatical about details and they are always made to be photogenic. Don't underestimate the importance of something as simple as custom wiring in the engine compartment. Sure, it might only be a two-second clip, but it can be used to break up two other shots and make all three more interesting.

Don't forget:

Engine components
Gauges
Underbody
Tire tread pattern/profile
Exhaust (good chance for some audio)
Console
Upholstery detail
Shifter
Engine wiring and tubing
Upgraded individual components in the engine
Audio system and wiring
Custom lighting (point the camera at a light and have it turn on)
Heck, even the door sills are probably a custom job in these cars

"I cut it down to 10 minutes from 1 hour of footage for each car and they all loved it and paid me quite well for it"

...and definitely keep doing things the customers like! Get yoself paid!
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Old February 16th, 2007, 08:51 AM   #13
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Hi Alex,

Remember, good drama comes from conflict. For your "Ducks" video why not try and shoot an end sequence that gives the film a hint of dramatic entertainment - a plate with a beautifully cooked 'duck confit' should do the trick.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 10:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pulcinella
How about three quick motionless shots in a row, preferably closeups of details the engine or interior...boom boom boom, and then a nice fluid moving shot to break things up? Still, still, still...moving...exterior front, side and back then swoop...and so on. Swoop into the engine and stop there for a while so we can see inside. Also, try to contrast fast moving with slow moving shots once in a while.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=5q2rd0dBc1Q

Mike

Thanks Mike I will definetley try this.
I think my problem was also the the fact that as far as editing goes I knew one thing "Cut in motion" so I translated this as meaning all your shots have to be in motion. I did not realize that you have to also mix motion with steady shots to make something interesting.

I basically started shooting with my shoulder mount and I would get static shots and pans. After a while I wanted more so I just went with the steady cam and motion on everyting. What I missed was what you are mentioning which is balance of static and motion (and having more static shots than moving if I understand this correctly). I think you made a good point and I will keep this in my mind on the next shoot.

One questions I had on Raising The Bar 2:

On the shot where on guy is lying down and using the dumbells and he can't get the last rep in (his spotter helps him) you have a shot from above. I really liked that shot and was wondering how it was done. Was a ladder used or a crane, WO lens?

Thannks.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 10:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault
I like Michael's suggestions. Break it up.
Take some really tight shots of engine components and interior details. Car buffs are fanatical about details and they are always made to be photogenic. Don't underestimate the importance of something as simple as custom wiring in the engine compartment. Sure, it might only be a two-second clip, but it can be used to break up two other shots and make all three more interesting.

Don't forget:

Engine components
Gauges
Underbody
Tire tread pattern/profile
Exhaust (good chance for some audio)
Console
Upholstery detail
Shifter
Engine wiring and tubing
Upgraded individual components in the engine
Audio system and wiring
Custom lighting (point the camera at a light and have it turn on)
Heck, even the door sills are probably a custom job in these cars

"I cut it down to 10 minutes from 1 hour of footage for each car and they all loved it and paid me quite well for it"

...and definitely keep doing things the customers like! Get yoself paid!

Detaill...detail...detail...I think you nailed it with this one...

I've looked at one of my 10 minute DVDs and even though I have quite a few detail shots:

grill
engine
hoses
wiring
custom metal cover
gauges
rear
plus the usual front side and different angles of the car...
I need to get more detail...

I normally ask the owner to tell me about the car...the story...and they normally tell me about a few things they really want to see...
I will work on getting more details in...

I also need to get the idea out that there is a limit of details you can show....like you said the potential is unlimited...if I'm going to shoot Jerry Bruckheimer style (I heard 178 hours of footage for a 2 hour film) where I shoot 1 hour for 10 minutes of footage (well I guess Jerry still has me beat) I need to make a list of even more details I can showcase and then as Michael mentioned above do static shots...

I was also thinking about filming the same shot in different ways and then I have more flexibility in editing
For example and engine shot: 1st shot would bea flying over the bumper like in the Chevell video, 2 a steady shot, 3 a pan, 4 roll the camera sideways. Would this be a good idea?
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