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Old September 4th, 2013, 04:22 PM   #16
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

I remember the big debate in 2005 going from DV to HDV and the question, was it better to shoot HDV and down convert or shoot in DV when Standard def was to be the final output.
Same question now if HD is the final output will it be better to shoot 4k then downconvert?
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Old September 4th, 2013, 04:38 PM   #17
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

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Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey View Post
I remember the big debate in 2005 going from DV to HDV and the question, was it better to shoot HDV and down convert or shoot in DV when Standard def was to be the final output.
Same question now if HD is the final output will it be better to shoot 4k then downconvert?
One plus now is that 4k is progressive, period. The plus that is still the same is that it gives an option to reframe later without loss of definition.

A lot may depend on the 4k-HD downconversion used - whether that filters before conversion, if not you get alising from the unfiltered high detail.

What was a problem with cameras like the Z1 was in camera downconversion - recording the output of the HD chips in SD DV mode. That problem shouldn't apply here to directly record normal HD as it should be possible to read the chip in the same way as the Canon C300, in 2x2 blocks. That avoids any software downconversion as such.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 04:42 PM   #18
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At last, the NX5 Succesor is here: FDR-AX1 Digital 4K Video

Well, in fact, is the AX2000 succesor. ;) (no SDI conector... and mono CMOS of 2/3"; not bad at all).

I saw it comming, but it is better than I expected (on paper). Kudos for Sony.

Lot of photos:

Sony’s FDR-AX1 Digital 4K Video Camera Recorder Hits Market at $4,499 | Fstoppers

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2013...h-a-auto-mode/

Sony's $4,500 FDR-AX1 Handycam puts 4K recording in the grasp of prosumers (eyes-on)

Unveiled: Sony New Consumer 4K, Action, and Music Camcorder Models | BH inDepth
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Old September 4th, 2013, 04:56 PM   #19
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

From the FX1 I had I almost always shot HDV and since moving to AVCHD HD then downconvert after editing at HD project settings. Normally use TMPGenc as this has a very good downconvertion. The main attraction of the 4K for me is to extract a HD image and this allows me to use either just one camera for a shoot or at least make that one camera do the work of several !!! I have found all the in camera down conversion to not be very good. Since the FDR-AX1 will shoot AVCHD as well it is more attractive at the moment than the PXW-Z100. The AX1 would also allow me to go completely 60P for a shoot with my CX700 and NX30U. My NX5U may be for sale !!!

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Old September 4th, 2013, 05:36 PM   #20
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

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One plus now is that 4k is progressive, period. The plus that is still the same is that it gives an option to reframe later without loss of definition.
I attend a number of standards meetings. Without naming specifics, not one soul has requested interlaced UHD at any meeting I've attended. If anything, when the word "interlaced" is spoken (as in, "I assume that the new standard will not include interlaced video"), the word is said with deep disgust. I think one guy spits on the ground after he says it!

So yes, in the world of UHD, interlaced video appears to be 100% dead. :)
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Old September 4th, 2013, 06:00 PM   #21
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

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....... when the word "interlaced" is spoken the word is said with deep disgust. I think one guy spits on the ground after he says it!
:-) It must however be remembered that in the 1930's interlace was a brilliant, brilliant idea! And I suspect Logie Baird can only wish he had had an interlace system in 1936....! One can only imagine the sinking feelings of the Baird technicians when they saw the first trials of the EMI system.

But time and technology move on and interlace belongs in the days of cathode ray tubes and before digital stores.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 06:36 PM   #22
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

You need 60P to replace the temporal motion of interlace though. 30P just doesn't do it for me. The AX1 will work nicely with my CX700 and NX30U all 60P.

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Old September 5th, 2013, 12:09 AM   #23
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

So true, David! Interlace was the original video compression technique! And for color, composite video (with 1.3 MHz bandwidth for I and 0.6 MHz bandwidth for Q) was a brilliant method of compression - you got color without needing any additional signal. :)
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Old September 5th, 2013, 02:29 AM   #24
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

All video samples downconverted to 1080 mean nothing. Youtube supports 4K at 24p, so It'd be interesting to see full-rez screenshots and video from the camera.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 10:54 AM   #25
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

If anybody has this AX1 or the Z100 demo,..could you PLEASE (pretty please?) upload a 1080 crop to Vimeo from the center of your 4k test shots?

Although I cant watch in 4k yet, a good clean 1080 center crop video would give us all a good reference point of the image quality in 4k.

CT

Last edited by Cliff Totten; September 5th, 2013 at 05:04 PM.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 08:13 PM   #26
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

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Originally Posted by Jack Zhang View Post
All video samples downconverted to 1080 mean nothing. Youtube supports 4K at 24p, so It'd be interesting to see full-rez screenshots and video from the camera.
I did a screenshot on my 30" 2560x1600 monitor of the Sony 4K youtube video :
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3699/9...5d1ee9e0_o.jpg
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Old September 6th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #27
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

Oh so it is 4K... I've been trying to figure out how to get the raw video off of YouTube but they're using a new streaming protocol (MPEG-DASH) that is making my head hurt trying to research it...

Anyone own a 4 monitor Eyefinity setup? If so, screen cap your entire screen so that we can have a full rez image.

Edit: Just figured out the GPAC stuff that makes MPEG-DASH run... Here's a full rez screenshot. The first thing I notice is Chromatic Abrasion everywhere...

I also loaded a proper working MP4 in Vegas and I can tell there's interpolation going on in the picture. You can also clearly see the noise in the full rez screenshot I provided.
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New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!-vlcsnap-2013-09-06-17h44m42s72.jpg  
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Last edited by Jack Zhang; September 6th, 2013 at 07:02 PM.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 01:45 AM   #28
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

CA looks very well controlled to me. There's a bit in the corners but otherwise it looks very good. Remember as you increase the lenses MTF then normally CA increases too, so to see this little CA in a low cost 4K camera is impressive.

I do see plenty of Bayer artefacts and chroma fuzz from the 4:2:0 encoding, but very little CA.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 06:09 PM   #29
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

I assume they're correcting for the CA electronically like they did with the EX1. Also not sure how much we can judge from a youtube stream, I think they run their 4k at somewhere around 6-8mbits so I would imagine the original image is much better.
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Old September 20th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #30
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Re: New! Sony FDR-AX1 4K Handycam!

I'd like to see how this cam is going to compare, not in ease of use, but in image quality with the BlackMagic Cinema Camera 4K.
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