Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X? - Page 6 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Most Recent Additions... > Sony 4K Ultra HD Handhelds

Sony 4K Ultra HD Handhelds
Pro and consumer versions including PXW-Z150, PXW-Z100, PXW-X70 / FDR-AX100


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 25th, 2015, 10:15 AM   #76
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Posts: 400
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

I remember it took Apple a long time to make AVCHD Lite format readable and directly ingestible into FCP7. When they actually implemented it almost nobody who had used FCP7 was shooting in that format anymore. Same to AVCHD 2.0 (1080/50p,60p 28Mbps) ingest in FCPX, it took them quite a while, maybe until 10.0.1 or 10.0.2 to make the raw clips directly ingestible.

Wait for it, it will come.
Wacharapong Chiowanich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2015, 12:33 AM   #77
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, Califonia
Posts: 1,333
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

I would guess it has a lot less to do with being ABLE to get it working than get it working CORRECTLY. You can get anything with 4 wheels rolling on it's own power, but there is a lot more to driving for a living than forward motion. I would also guess there are a lot of ways to get a codec to perform poorly when processed in someone else's, or even your own NLE.

Paul
Paul Anderegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2015, 03:36 AM   #78
Tourist
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SAN JOSE
Posts: 1
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

We use EditReady to transcode AVCHD and XAVC-L directly to ProRes 422 in our workflow. EditReady : Transcoding Without The Hassle - divergent media

We prefer preparing, transcoding and renaming the ProRes files BEORE importing into FCPX.
Bruce Tambling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2015, 01:01 PM   #79
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle WA
Posts: 958
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

Tagging onto what Paul said (post #77), there are probably other issues in the way of a quick fix for the importing problem. Apple’s Developer’s Conference (WWDC 2015) will be in a little over a month on June 8. They’ll be rolling out new versions of iOS, OS X and who knows what else.

There may well be an update to FCP X so it seems likely that all hands will be working to make sure all the releases are trouble-free and there won’t be any hic-ups to mar the WWDC show or the releases that come afterward. It takes time for applications to be tested so they’re as trouble-free as possible and all it takes is one good “gotcha” to go viral.

On top of all this, there are undoubtably contract agreements between companies (Apple and Sony in this case) and lawyers have a reputation for “time is NOT of the essence.” Anybody know if there is any money changing hands between the companies?

For the past few years both the Panasonic and Sony corporations have been bleeding financially. That’s one reason Panasonic spun off JVC and I think Sony has spun off some of their company too. In contrast, Apple keeps making a profit and has a huge pile of cash. A camcorder that can export easily to FCP X will obviously benefit from increased sales. Could there be some corporate gamesmanship going on here? Patent trading?

The plan last summer was to get the X70 when it came out but it wasn’t FCP X friendly. A Sony rep told me they should hopefully have something by fall (2014) so I waited. Thanks to all of Paul Anderegg’s testing and posts on the X70, not to mention the hype on 4K and my waiting, there are now more cam choices available. More decisions. While ClipWrap has been working good at re-wrapping, the next cam(s) will be FCP X friendly (among other requirements) or I won’t buy it (them).
John Nantz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2015, 07:59 AM   #80
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 142
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Tambling View Post
We use EditReady to transcode AVCHD and XAVC-L directly to ProRes 422 in our workflow. EditReady : Transcoding Without The Hassle - divergent media

We prefer preparing, transcoding and renaming the ProRes files BEORE importing into FCPX.
I just submitted a support question to divergent media. I'm seeing a glitch in the transcoded time code track. Other differences exist too.

My test: XAVC-L 50 Mbps clip shot with Sony's PXW-X70. Transcoded to ProRes 422 in Catalyst Browse, Catalyst Prepare (trial) and EditReady (trial).

I then used QuickTime Player 7 to inspect the tracks. Browse and Prepare both produced files with 10 total tracks: 1 video, 8 sound, and 1 timecode. EditReady produced a file with 6 total tracks: 4 sound, 1 video and 1 timecode. And EditReady's timecode track is displaying garbled characters in the 'TimeCode Start' and 'TimeCode Stop' column of the Properties window. And the garbled characters rapidly change over time. That tells me the software (QTP 7) is attempting to read data about the timecode track and not succeeding.

All footage plays back a-ok in Final Cut Pro X, QuickTime Player and QuickTime Player 7. Still, I haven't used any features that would rely upon the timecode track. So possible something may break down if using the EditReady files.


UPDATE: divergent's support is fast! They haven't heard about this issue, but it may be an edge case involving just QT Player 7. So probably not worth any fix. I was only using that player to inspect transcoded files; it won't be used in any of my workflows.

Last edited by Ricky Sharp; April 29th, 2015 at 09:22 AM.
Ricky Sharp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 07:06 AM   #81
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 142
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

FYI: FCP X version 10.2.1 still doesn't fix the issue. I've updated my bug (still open by Apple) with these new findings.
Ricky Sharp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 07:17 AM   #82
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Posts: 489
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

Yep, that's the first thing I tried also - still doesn't work. In fact, even clicking on the X70 volume in the import window crashes FCPX.

I read yesterday someone promoting the use of an Odyssey, etc. 4K recorder in conjunction with the 4K upgrade - but isn't that making an assumption that the upgrade will provide 4K @ 4:2:2 out thru the hdmi port? We don't really have confirmation of that do we? Not to mention that I'm not sure what I think about the idea of adding $500 for the 4K plus $2000 for a recorder to use with a $2000 camera.

Lastly, I also read that the actual date the 4K will be available - still @ $500 US - will be June 15. Again, rumor or fact?
David Dixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 07:58 AM   #83
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 142
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

I for one will not be upgrading at all to 4K. While I cannot prove the following, my assumption is that the in-camera downscaled HD footage will be better than capturing 4K and downscaling in post. Here's why I think this:

* 4K footage will be captured at 8-bit 4:2:0. And David, no clue if that will be 8-bit 4:2:2 out of the HDMI port.

* 4K footage only captured at 60 Mbps. While there is less chroma being captured and 8-bit vs. 10-bit, I still think the low bit rate will result in higher compression being applied.

* Sony has no details on the layout pattern used (e.g. bayer) to capture 4K. But as it's not an 8K sensor in a bayer pattern, I don't believe it can record 4K worth of red, green and blue. Whereas from what I can tell, HD footage benefits tremendously from truly having 2K worth of red, green and blue (with probably an extra 2K of green to help with luma calculations). Thus, more interpolation going on for the 4K footage.

In summary, I believe recording in 4K and then downconverting to HD would suffer from more interpolation, higher compression and less bit depth. And if doing in-camera, worse chroma subsampling.

One thing I have on my radar is blackmagic's video assist (coming out hopefully in July). A pretty lightweight unit that allows recording 1080p to ProRes on U3 SDXC cards. Since I'm already transcoding XAVC-L to ProRes 422 (via EditReady), I may as well get a first-generation ProRes recording right off the cam.
Ricky Sharp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 09:45 AM   #84
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,782
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

Article regarding the Sony x70 4k upgrade. I hope it's OK posting here as they don't have a competing forum.

Pro Video Coalition - PXW-X70 users will want a Shogun or PIX-E5 even more after the 4K upgrade by Allan Tépper
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 10:17 AM   #85
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Posts: 489
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

Craig - yes, that's the article that I was referring to. Ricky and I seem to disagree with some of his opinions :-)

Ricky - a good assessment. I think 4:2:2 out of the hdmi @ 4K is probably just wishful thinking. I've also been looking at the BM Video Assist, especially since it records HD @ 60fps, which not all recorders will do. I do wish it had a waveform rather than just a histogram, but depending on the kinds of things you shoot, you could make a good case that the Video Assist might be a better place to invest $500 rather than the 4K upgrade. The one 4K clip that's been posted looked pretty great, but glaringly did not include much camera or subject movement.

The X70 is an amazing camera for $2K. For me, the only real drawbacks are:

1. the rather average stabilization
Compared to my previous Canon XF100 I'm having to use tripod/post stabilization/Active Stabilization far more.

2. random minor things
There is no waveform, no 120fps, and of course I'd like even shallower DOF than the 1" sensor @ 2.8 can provide.

3. the most major thing for me? - highlight handling
I find highlights have to be treated very carefully, and attempting to control them (more than just minimally) using the available Knee settings makes it even worse. I'd love a true flat "log" PP.
David Dixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2015, 12:59 PM   #86
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 179
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

I was considering renting an AX100 for a dance recital's lock down wide shot, hoping I could crop/zoom for "close" shots as a backup for the primary camera (I am delivering on DVD). The comments here are scaring me off, especially since I'm still editing in Final Cut 7. However I did find a transcoding product from Acrok that claims to be able to convert to ProRes (422 and 4444) that can be used by either FCX or FC7.

I was only able to find a single reference to this product on DVINFO, but it's 2 years old and doesn't discuss if it works.

Has anyone on this thread seen/heard/tried Acrok? Seems cheap enough at $39.

Thanks.
__________________
VM Productions
Mike Hanlon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2015, 01:05 PM   #87
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Posts: 489
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

Why not just go with EditReady - great company, great support, $49
Same company that did ClipWrap for years.

EditReady : Transcoding Without The Hassle - divergent media
David Dixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2015, 02:51 PM   #88
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 142
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dixon View Post
Why not just go with EditReady - great company, great support, $49
Same company that did ClipWrap for years.

EditReady : Transcoding Without The Hassle - divergent media
I have been using EditReady as my workaround of choice as well. My second bug filed with Apple is still open. Sony hasn't budged either on their Catalyst Browse issues.

The one thing I'm missing about Catalyst Prepare (I used the trial a while back) is that it transcodes clips measurably faster than EditReady. At least on my 12-core Mac Pro. Not a huge deal though for me. Definitely worth the savings of $150.

But if one would be dealing with tons of footage, the higher price of Prepare may get offset by time savings.
Ricky Sharp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2015, 03:59 PM   #89
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 28
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

We have a report in the Facebook group that the V2 firmware has fixed the FCPX issue!!! Anyone test this yet. Im gonna try to mess around tonight if I have time! FINALLY!!!
David McCann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2015, 06:17 PM   #90
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Posts: 489
Re: Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

Yes! Works flawlessly, and the native clips are very fluid to edit. So, was there some glitch in Sony's implementation of XAVC-L in the X70? This final fix came from Sony, not Apple...

For the record, this is the (free) 2.0 firmware update. It only adds a few features, but is required in order to do the (paid) 4K upgrade supposedly coming in mid-June. I got it from the UK Sony site, but worked fine. The update claims to require the original USB cable that came with the camera. I don't know if that's really necessary, but I used it just in case. The update took about 5 minutes, but does a full factory reset, including all Picture Profile and custom button assignment changes you've made.

http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/support/so...SET_150526_PSG

The import window shows in the PRIVATE folder a Clip file, an audio file, and a thumbnail for each clip. I just imported the main Clip file and the audio was included. Unlike ProRes, you *can* set In/Out points to avoid importing the whole clip. You also have the option to select Optimize in the Import window and FCPX will transcode (in the background) to ProRes.

However, previous clips recorded using the old firmware still will not import, and FCPX crashes if you try. So, a change was made in the way the codec is recorded and/or stored.

Last edited by David Dixon; June 3rd, 2015 at 07:14 PM.
David Dixon is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Most Recent Additions... > Sony 4K Ultra HD Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:28 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network