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Sony 4K Ultra HD Handhelds
Pro and consumer versions including PXW-Z150, PXW-Z100, PXW-X70 / FDR-AX100

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Old February 21st, 2018, 12:20 AM   #16
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

After many sunny blue sky days... it went all overcast today. Still, I went ahead with a test.
With both the Z90 and AX100 screens set to full bright, I did not see any difference in them. They look to be the same size and brightness, and same amount of glare/reflection. The image on the Z90 looks a little less contrasty, but that's down to the additional stops of dynamic range, or whatever.

I re-confirmed that the AX100 will not output any HDMI signal while in 4K recording mode. Go into standby and it will output a signal. I had to select 1080i or 720p in order to get a display to appear on the Zacuto EVF. When I set the camera's HDMI resolution to AUTO mode or anything other than 720p or 1080i, the EVF says it cannot accept the 1080 60p 422 that the camera is outputting. No problem, just go with 1080i output and you can get a display, except once you hit record, the screen goes blank. This only applies to 4K mode, all other modes can be output during recording.

Now the interesting part. The Zacuto brightness was set to maximum, which is 11 on the setup controls. And the Zacuto EVF was not as bright as the AX100 LCD screen, and also had a lot of glare/reflection, even on an overcast day. I got the Zacuto for aiming my Sony FDR-X3000 action cameras and have tried using it with my Canon 6D at night when trying to get my lens focused manually when shooting astral timelapses. So glare wasn't really an issue in either of those applications.

The Z90 can be setup to output during 4K recording, but you then lose the LCD display, where all your data is overlayed. If I were looking for something to tackle the poor LCD visibility in sunlight, I think I'd look into the smaller displays that have the highest brightness. Of course the Zacuto can be used with its loupe, which I also have, and works great for blocking out the sun, but the optimal solution would not involve a loupe (for me anyways).

The surprise I got today was that my AX100 ouputs 1080 60P 4:2:2 over HDMI. Is that in the manual? Don't think I ever read that spec anywhere and when I hooked the camera up to my TV set, it didn't report any info on the input signal, like some sets do. The Zacuto was reporting everything correctly as I switched through all the camera output modes.

Mark
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Old February 21st, 2018, 12:59 AM   #17
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

In bright sunshine, I think the only solution is to buy an eyecup (as suggested) and use the eye viewfinder. This goes any camera no matter what the pice. 5 -700 is a lot of money for something that I personally do not think will work.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 02:38 AM   #18
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

I've never used the Atomos Shogun Inferno, but the screen boasts a very bright screen. I've seen reviews where they claimed it worked fine in bright sunshine. Downsides to using with a camera like the AX100 is that it's got to use HDMI, and the AX100's HDMI is the micro-sized one. Also, any monitor-recorder is going to need a mounting solution and add some clumsiness to the shooting experience, taking into account the weight of the monitor and the batteries and then SSD(s) if you also are recording. Basically, handheld would probably suck, while tripod supported would be tolerable.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 02:38 PM   #19
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

Mark, many thanks for running the tests, very much appreciated. I'm not surprised that the Z90 is not significantly improved in this regard, unfortunately. And the more I think about setting up an Atomos device the less enthusiastic I become about that approach.

So the AX100 gets relegated to the 'only for cloudy days' cupboard and my question, the title of this thread, remains unanswered. 'Sony 4K Ultra HD Handhelds' is perhaps not the best place to ask this question.

Many thanks for the inputs.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 05:21 PM   #20
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

What other cameras do you own or are looking at that have the LCD screens you like for direct sunlight viewing?
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Old February 21st, 2018, 06:27 PM   #21
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

Cliff, that's more or less the question I asked you all to begin with! And I said 'the EVF and the LCD are way too dim' so let me emphasize a good to great EVF would turn my crank, for sure.

I'm hearing good things about the Lumix G9 in regards the EVF in particular - don't know about the LCD - and the 4k video quality is said to be excellent also (not to mention its highly regarded still capability which is also of great interest to me).

Let me ask you; what cameras do you own or are looking at that have the LCD screens and/or EVF you like for direct sunlight viewing? And I'm talking high altitude Arizona summer midday sun and not that humid hazy grey sweaty drenching Florida stuff.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 07:17 PM   #22
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

Get a new or used FS7 and you will live happily for years and years. All your viewing problems will be solved and you'll have a camera that has features and functions that will revolutionize how you work and what you can create with it.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 07:45 PM   #23
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

Quote:
Originally Posted by John McCully View Post
Cliff, that's more or less the question I asked you all to begin with! And I said 'the EVF and the LCD are way too dim' so let me emphasize a good to great EVF would turn my crank, for sure.

I'm hearing good things about the Lumix G9 in regards the EVF in particular - don't know about the LCD - and the 4k video quality is said to be excellent also (not to mention its highly regarded still capability which is also of great interest to me).

Let me ask you; what cameras do you own or are looking at that have the LCD screens and/or EVF you like for direct sunlight viewing? And I'm talking high altitude Arizona summer midday sun and not that humid hazy grey sweaty drenching Florida stuff.
Well? I can tell you this: Coming from a radical die-hard SONY fan-boy ZOMBIE like me? I have owned 16 Sony cameras in 20 years. I love that company to death. But my very first non-Sony camera in 20 years was the GH5....and lemme tell you! I WANTED to hate it. I tried so hard to hate it but the more I shot with it, the more it freaked me out. That camera is jaw-dropping.

It uses a state of the art SONY Exmor IMX272 image sensor that is WAY larger than a 1inch-type sensor.
It can do a full 6k sensor readout and full 6k anamorphic lens recordings...internally.
Full 10bit color sampling and processing!
UHD 4k in 60p!...60p, not just 30p.
Full DCI 4k (17x9) in...10bit color.
400Mbps 10bit 4:2:2 all I frame compression onto dual SD cards.(Several Long GOP flavors too)
10bit V-Log with VariCam color science. (sorry Sony,..y'know I love SLog but VLog colors drop into place perfectly with no green/blue channel fighting or "twisting" and they "pop" better)
12 stops of real dynamic range....using a real SONY Exmor IMX272 image sensor.
Waveform and vector scopes.
Over cranking and under cranking variable frame rates from 1 to 180 frames a second.
No recording limit.
Absolutely ZERO overheating problems. (Just like any true camcorder)
Sensor readout is clocked FASTER than an FS7 and has LESS rolling shutter.(Thank you blazing fast Sony Exmor IMX272 image sensor)
Floating sensor stabilized. It's like walking with a gimbal. Shooting 600mm zoom (35mm equivelant) lenses HANDHELD look almost like a tripod shot.

Oh,...Did I mention it's got a SONY Exmor IMX272 image sensor? Yes, Sony sold their soul (and their proprietary, patented technology) to Panasonic.

Man,..this thing is SICK for $2,000. Guys are using this as B cams to Super35mm Varicams and you cant even tell the difference. I have even seen comparisons where the GH5 is cleaner than their own Super35mm EVA-1.

The EVF is great on it. Dont get the G9 as it's recording time is limited and missing most of the video features the GH5 has.

I REALLY hate to say it but Sony Semiconductor company created a MONSTER when they sold Panasonic that Sony IMX272 Exmor sensor. I'm sure Sony Imaging company was NOT happy at all.

So yeah.,....as a "Sony man"..ugggg....I must admit that the GH5 friggin' phenomenal. Get one and return it if you dont like it. I'm pretty sure you will love it. It's only $2k and the Leica glass that you can get is gorgeous.

Sorry Sony,....It actually "hurt" me to type all this! :-(

CT

p.s. Doug is right, the FS7 is an absolute joy to shoot with. I love, LOVE that camera. I love that 12bit raw sensor data output. But you need to be able to afford it and it wont be easy to carry around. it's great for jobs where you want impress your customer. But it's not great for "casual" shooting. Especially on a boat.

Last edited by Cliff Totten; February 21st, 2018 at 11:23 PM.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 09:24 PM   #24
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

As a long time Sony user I too have moved to the Panasonic GH5 with Leica 12-60 lens and XLR attachment. I was waiting for a nice larger sensor Sony camera to replace my FDR-AX1 but it never came !!! UHD60P is a must for me so most of the Sony's, other than the FS7 are off the table. A NX80 with UHD 60P would have sold me but I am now thinking of getting another GH5. I can buy 3 GH5 setups for the price of a FS7 kit !!! It is easy to use and the WIFi application that works with Apple and Android is great allowing full control of the camera with remote preview including peaking. Touch focus etc on the tablet remote is great for the theatre use as a fixed remote camera for me. I will likely get a Ninja Inferno to get 10bit 4:2:2 UHD 60P from the GH5. This kit is still less than half the price of a FS7.

I also have an NX5U, AX100, AX53 and a FDR-AX1 that does not work and costs too much to fix !!!
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Old February 21st, 2018, 10:19 PM   #25
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

I quite like the classic notion that 'form follows function' or to put it in context the camera should be selected based on its suitability to perform in the intended use scenario(s). I also subscribe to the notion that a fool and his money are soon parted - I try not to be foolish.

I'm taking all your most helpful input on-board, and cogitating...

Many thanks.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 03:33 PM   #26
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

The smallhd focus 5in monitor is a great buy at 500.00
Quality is very good and in broad daylight you would think you're inside looking at this monitor they really have it perfected I saw it at NAB last year it's a no-brainer
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Old February 25th, 2018, 04:05 PM   #27
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

Thanks Jim, the problem is it seems there is no way to output from the AX100 to such a monitor while recording. My understanding is that this serious limitation is related to the (relatively old technology) BIONZ X processor and heat generation/power consumption as seems all the Sony 4k prosumer/consumer cams have this issue, more or less.

I would be delighted to know if we have that wrong.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 05:47 PM   #28
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Re: Camera upgrade suggestions please

The inability to output a signal on the HDMI port during 4K recording is stated in the 204 page help guide, on page 48.

The Z90 can do it, the AX100 cannot.
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