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Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Sony PDW-F800, PDW-700, PDW-850, PXW-X500 (XDCAM HD) and PMW-400, PMW-320 (XDCAM EX).


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Old November 17th, 2008, 03:49 PM   #16
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The AVC Intra cameras are 10 bit. 10 bit won't give you more dynamic range, that's a function of the sensors, but it will give you a lot more samples to play with so you are much less likely to see any stair stepping or issues with gradients etc. If properly implemented and you have the bandwidth to handle it a 10 bit workflow should produce superior pictures to a similar 8 bit workflow, especially if you are doing a lot of grading or post work.

I've been doing some stuff on the Sony Roadshow with an F23 and SRW1 so have been thinking 10 bit!
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Old November 17th, 2008, 03:59 PM   #17
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The BBC guys (Planet Earth team) were certainly talking about the 10 bit giving better contrast handling, stretching the dynamic range, talking specifically about handling contrasty situations like jungles etc.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 05:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps View Post
The BBC guys (Planet Earth team) were certainly talking about the 10 bit giving better contrast handling, stretching the dynamic range, talking specifically about handling contrasty situations like jungles etc.
Like Alister said, those extra bits don't do anything for dynamic range or sensitivity, etc. An 8 bit resolution gives you 256 unique values for brightness in each channel, but doesn't dictate the darkest or lightest value assigned to 0 and 255. If you have a contrasty picture, those 256 values might not be enough to give a smooth gradation whereas with 10 bits you get 1024 unique values to step through in the darkest to lightest range.

One might say by extrapolation that if you reduce contrast in the image as you acquire it to make those 8 bit transitions not so harsh, then yes 10 bits would let you keep more contrast in the image without too much stair stepping between the 1024 available values. I can kind of see what the BBC guys were getting at in that regard,

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Old November 17th, 2008, 06:32 PM   #19
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We were thinking the Canon KJ16x7.7b-krsd lens.. any thoughts?
Ryan, having used both Canon and Fuji broadcasts lenses for nearly 2 decades I'm a big Fuji fan. I've always seemed to have less CA and better color with the Fuji's but the most annoying thing I've noticed about the Canon's is the focus ring is always so touchy. Seems like the slightest touch and it will move out of focus where the Fuji provides a much more solid, responsive focus. If you've got the money get a wider lens with the 2X or buy a new car - whatever makes the most sense ;-)
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Old November 17th, 2008, 06:40 PM   #20
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Ryan, having used both Canon and Fuji broadcasts lenses for nearly 2 decades I'm a big Fuji fan. I've always seemed to have less CA and better color with the Fuji's but the most annoying thing I've noticed about the Canon's is the focus ring is always so touchy. Seems like the slightest touch and it will move out of focus where the Fuji provides a much more solid, responsive focus. If you've got the money get a wider lens with the 2X or buy a new car - whatever makes the most sense ;-)
Thanks Rick,

a new car is sounding good at this point j/k =)
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Old November 18th, 2008, 06:29 AM   #21
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The BBC guys (Planet Earth team) were certainly talking about the 10 bit giving better contrast handling, stretching the dynamic range, talking specifically about handling contrasty situations like jungles etc.
As Greg and Alistair say, 10 bit won't give any improvement in the viewed picture, what it WILL give is the ability to do better grading after recording.
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Originally Posted by Alister Chapman
10 bit won't give you more dynamic range, that's a function of the sensors, but it will give you a lot more samples to play with so you are much less likely to see any stair stepping or issues with gradients etc.
Stair stepping and gradients have far more to do with compression than bit depth - you shouldn't see any noticeable problems on uncompressed 8 bit material, and these effects are really to do with rounding down of DCT values.

It's easy to demonstrate with Photoshop. Form a horizontal gradient - black on the left, white on the right - and it should appear fairly smooth. Now save it as a JPEG with the highest level of compression you can apply, and watch the stair stepping leap out.

Consequently **for systems with the same bitrates**, 10 bit could actually mean worse stair stepping - 20% more bits to compress into the same bitstream, hence higher overall compression.

10 bit is normally a good thing, but not in a relatively low bitrate system.
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Old November 18th, 2008, 06:34 AM   #22
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David, what you're saying seems to be backed up 100% by the EBU document you just linked to in another post. They seem to reckon that 8 bit is good enough / indistinguishable unless you're doing special effects etc.
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Old November 18th, 2008, 08:24 AM   #23
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thanks David, that explains a lot.
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