HC1: really poor colours quality inside ? at DVinfo.net

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Sony HVR-A1 and HDR-HC Series
Sony's latest single-CMOS additions to their HDV camcorder line.


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Old November 26th, 2005, 04:42 PM   #1
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HC1: really poor colours quality inside ?

Hi everybody,

I read a lot of enthusiastic posts about HC1-E and because I turned into HD my home cinema, I decided to sell my Panasonic GS400 and to buy this famous HC1.

Oups! Did I make a mistake?

My first test was in my living room, (20M≤ with 100 Watt lamp).
Iím using Vegas 6 (set to 1080/50 project) with Firewire connection and Iím really terrified about poor colour and noisy image quality.

My old GS400 had given to me better images than my new HC1.

However I canít believe this camera is worth than my old Panasonic, I think I miss something somewhere. In fact, image quality on the camera's screen seem to be better than on the computer screen.

Please, anybody can help me to explain what I made wrong?
Thank you.
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Old November 27th, 2005, 12:54 AM   #2
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I cannot confirm that the HC1 have bad colors, I possess still another professional more 3Chip camcorder Sony DSR200 and to that am not better with darkness. In my HC1 setup is the color level +2 up....

on this site: http://www.fxsupport.de/hc1/hc1_2.html see you my HC1 on the vectorscope. with color 2+ is the color-range of HC1 good.....the DSR 200 is little better difference of color......only little. The HDV chip needs however actually because of higher resolution somewhat more light (only 1-2 F).

See my online "darkness" samples:
http://www.fxsupport.de/hc1/daten/film6.mpg
Shutter Speed: 50, Gain +9dB, F1.7 Filesize: 15.976 KB

or

http://www.fxsupport.de/hc1/daten/film1.mpg
Shutter Speed: 100, Gain +3dB, F1.7 Filesize: 16.401 KB

the color is there good...or not?

i hope my bad english is understanding for you.....
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Old November 29th, 2005, 10:33 AM   #3
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Hi Fabrice,

Concerning the noise inside the images:

I was an owner of a GS400 too: compared to the GS400 in the same low light condition, I found that the Auto mode of the Sony HC1 prefers to show more light but creates more noise (an another way to say it: in low light, the GS400 images seem a little darker with a little less noise).
The choice made by Sony is more suitable for my own purposes (not professional), espacially when using the camera at home in the Auto mode.

In a same way, in Auto mode, the transitions between the dark parts of a room and the less dark ones (a door opened, a window with the outside light), seem to me better managed by the HC1 than with GS400 (again: for my purposes).

You've written "In fact, image quality on the camera's screen seem to be better than on the computer screen."; here the HD resolution is the main answer: you got more details on your computer screen (I presume in native 1080, or at minimum downconverted to something around 720) than on the small LCD screen of the HC1 that has a resolution of something like 150 lines max. So, you see more easilly the noise than on the LCD.
On my point of view, nothing is wrong with the way you transfer or you edit your shots.

Concerning the colors:

With this low resolution of the LCD screen of the HC1, you can see an image where each pixel gets its own color information (like would do a "4:4:4" capture), stead a 4:2:0 in higher resolution.

Personnally, I don't found that the colors are poorer in low light condition compare to the Panasonic GS400.

But, more generally, in all the light conditions, it's clear that the Sony's "Colors" are not exactly the ones of the Panasonic cameras: in the past, I everytime found that Sony DV cams produced images a little cooler (=with a little more blue/less red) than that Panansonic ones produced. Many people prefer the Sony's 'temperature' of the colors, other people prefer the Panasonic's one!
I was surprised to found that the HC1 produces a 'temperature' of colors more close to the one of the panasonic (but not exactly the same).

I found a compromise by adding +1 for the color managment in the setting (Camera set->Camera color).

BTW, I liked the 'Cinema mode' on the GS400: this mode is missing on the HC1 (but exists with 2 modes on the HVR-A1); it's a pity, but it's possible to apply the corresponding effect during the post-editing.

An another idea to explain your 'poor' colors images: maybe you've in the past calibrated your computer screen to match the colors of your Panasonic DV shots. You maybe need to adapt again the colors of your screen to use correctly Vegas 6?

If you finally watch your shots on a video-projector or a big TV set (LCD or plasma), maybe the colors are managed differently with a HD source than with an SD source: you need maybe to found a compromise in the setting of your projector/TV screen.
Have you try different projectors/screens (build with a pixel resolution of 720, 768 or 1080 lines) to watch the result of your shots ?
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Last edited by Bruno Donnet; November 30th, 2005 at 05:13 AM.
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Old November 30th, 2005, 04:50 PM   #4
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In first, accept my appology to have been so fast to send my last mail.

However at the first look using automatic setting, I was suprised to find worse color quality than my 'old' 3CCD GS400.

Now I have used this camera during one week and I discover how it is amazing !

Wolgang,
I used your setting (shutter speed to 100 and color +1) and the camera give me more contrast and less noise in low light condition.

Bruno,
you was right my computer screen needed to be calibrated again.

I tried to connect my HC1 to my Projector Sanyo Z3 with component cable but the result wasn't good.
I captured this movie on my computer using firewire and I played it directly from my harddrive and I said : "WoooooWWW !!!"
So I think I have to calibrate my projector with my HC1 also.

I tried to film the same scene that I made with my GS400.
I compared the both movies and every time the HC1 won.

Thank you for your help.

Fabrice
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Old November 30th, 2005, 09:43 PM   #5
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Wolfgang's site

Wolfgang-
Any chance of translating your site into English? It looks very interesting.
Thanks,
Jim
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Old December 1st, 2005, 03:03 AM   #6
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-Any chance of translating your site into English?-

My old schoolenglish (1970...english learn...for what?) is very,very bad ;-( and this site is a non-profit site. No man, no woman in my circle of acquaintances translates me the sides free of charge...

only the fantastic "Ohrwurm" Site is in the next week's in english translate:

http://www.fxsupport.de/hc1/micro.html

is BABELFISH to translate (german to english) too bad?

Wolfgang / Ruessel
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Old December 1st, 2005, 02:44 PM   #7
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I put the site through Babelfish and it worked very well.
thanks,
Jim
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Old December 2nd, 2005, 03:58 PM   #8
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F1.7?

Wolfgang,

Why do you put F1.7 in your videos? It is not F1.8 the fastest?

Jaime
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Old December 2nd, 2005, 11:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaime Angoloti
Wolfgang,

Why do you put F1.7 in your videos? It is not F1.8 the fastest?

Jaime
Yes. But the HC1 tell me in the playmode F1.7!! The HC1 is writing this in the Mpegstream....is that a firmware-bug?
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Old December 3rd, 2005, 07:25 AM   #10
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F1.7 ?

I don't know, it says F1.8 on mine.
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Old December 3rd, 2005, 03:38 PM   #11
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....your kamera with brand new firmware? My HC1 Serial 1240xxx....
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