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Sony HVR-A1 and HDR-HC Series
Sony's latest single-CMOS additions to their HDV camcorder line.


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Old May 7th, 2006, 08:44 PM   #121
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You should get the most coating layers as possible, so the Hoya Super-Multicoated (12 layers) UV filters if you want a filter.
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Old May 8th, 2006, 12:59 AM   #122
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And what's the wide-angle converter you're using Poppe?

Floris - are you sure you really need a UV filter? OK, if you're off on a dusty safari or you're about to film sticky-fingered, inquisitive children, go ahead - fit one. Otherwise any filter you fit generally lessens the effective hooding of the front element as well as introducing more flare. It's mighty hard keeping both surfaces of the glass spotless. We're working at very short focal lengths indeed and it's all too easy to bring imperfections into near focus.

tom.
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Old May 8th, 2006, 02:37 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floris van Eck
Which Hoya filter is the Pro 1? Is it this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont....x=0&image.y=0
I'm not sure which one of those is Pro1. Maybe Pro1 name is used only in Europe market, don't know. I ordered it here: http://www.maitolaituri.tv/product_i...72&language=en
It is a good filter, but quite hard to clean. But so are all other multi-coated filters too.

Edit:
>> And what's the wide-angle converter you're using Poppe?
It's a Sony VCL-HG0737Y lense. I really like it, but still A1's picture quality is best without any extra lense.
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Old May 8th, 2006, 04:35 PM   #124
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Ok, so I guess I won't need an UV filter then. I am also looking at a polariser, which I think is very difficult to achieve in post, am I right?

I am currently debating about which Lens Hood I should get. I have a HDR-HC1E with the Sony Wide-Angle lens like almost everyone else. If I buy the Cavision LH77, how do I protect my front element when I do not use the camera? Another problem is that the shipping costs to The Netherlands for the Cavision LH77 are $45, which almost doubles the prize.

Maybe there are other alternatives?
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Old May 8th, 2006, 04:44 PM   #125
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I am going on a two-week trip to Italy in two months and I want to make sure I have a proper setup. At this moment I have a:

- Sony HDR-HC1E
- Sony VCL-HG0737Y
- Rode NTG-2 Directional Microphone
- Spider Brace 2
- Manfrotto tripod
- Sony NP-QM71D battery
- Sony NP-FM50 battery

I need information on:

- Lens Hood
- Cleaning Kit
- Charger
- Bag for in the field (comfortable to carry, but big enough for most of my stuff, one that I can carry for like 6 hours on my back/shoulders.

I am not sure if I need any filters but considering the sunny weather in Italy (especially the golden fields in Sicilly), I am almost 100% confident that I need a polarising filter. Furthermore, I am not sure if I agree with all of you that filters really degrade the image quality noticeably. Professional photographers like Ansel Adams and many others after him have always used a wide-array of filters and that appearently has not degraded their work to a big extend. I agree that I do not necessarily need an UV filter, and that many classic filters have been replaced by post-production. But when exposing, I think it is nice to see the effect of a polariser.

But maybe I am wrong so please fill me in. I will only put the filters on when needed of course, otherwise it does not make any sense.

I hope everyone can answer my questions. This is one of the best topics I have encountered on any forum. Keep the discussion going!
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Old May 8th, 2006, 06:10 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floris van Eck
I am not sure if I need any filters but considering the sunny weather in Italy (especially the golden fields in Sicilly), I am almost 100% confident that I need a polarising filter. Furthermore, I am not sure if I agree with all of you that filters really degrade the image quality noticeably. Professional photographers like Ansel Adams and many others after him have always used a wide-array of filters and that appearently has not degraded their work to a big extend. I agree that I do not necessarily need an UV filter, and that many classic filters have been replaced by post-production. But when exposing, I think it is nice to see the effect of a polariser.
Well I, for one, agree with you. I use polariser very often on my DV cam and in the right sunny bright conditions it can really add amazing punch to your footage. Almost ALL still photos that you see in travel brochuers to sunny places are shot using polarisers. I use polarisers for my still cams too. You can choose the amount of pol.effect you want by rotation. Max. effect is when you are physically oriented so that you are shooting approx. 90degrees to the ray's of light. Not much pol.effect at all when light is coming from directly behind you or directly in front of you.

Also it helps cut through water reflections, which helps saturate seas / lakes to nice green / blue hues.

I'd take one, and take a UV filter too, and hang the purists..
Use them, check the footage, if you like it, then do it. Simple as that. Better to have them with you and not use them, than not to have them with you and wish you'd got them.
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Old May 9th, 2006, 02:13 AM   #127
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You're right - polarising filter effects are very difficult and time consuming to replicate in post, and sometimes (the reflection in water issue) impossible. But what travel brocures etc show you are snatches in time, and your movie will be a running timeline - two quite different things.

I've used a polarisor and simply turning 90 degrees for your next shot will bring continuity headaches galore (you know how polarisors work?). Talent won't be best pleased at all the life and shine being taken out of her hair, and skin tones take on an unnatural dullness. Removing the sheen from things isn't always a good idea.

Now to Mr Ansel Adams. He was working with ''chips'' that measure 10" x 8". Your 1/3" CMOS measures 4.4 mm x 3.3 mm (think 1/8th inch and you're there). THAT's why using filters is so different for us both. We're using focal lengths of 3 mm, Ansel was using more like 250 mm. Guess which filter will be more in focus?

OK, grads are probably more useful than polarisers, though with such short focal lengths you'll have to be careful over hard and soft grad choices. Also I'd say don't use filters at all when you use the wide-angle. Yo'll be adding three extra elements to the Zeiss line-up - so don't add yet another.

But then again you don't want to allow your HC1 to shoot at a smaller aperture than f/4 if you can help it. The automatic internal ND will soak 3 stops, but if it gets brighter the aperture blades will close down to f8. Not good for sharpness. To avoid this in sunny Italy it might be best to invest in a super multi-coated ND8.

Lens hoods will get in the way of your pop-up flash, but then again, so what? Try and get an aspect ratio hood - especially if you'll be shooting 16:9.

Will the Rode NGT-2 plug in ok? As the internal mics are so difficult to wind-shield, a small stereo unit fitting that special shoe might be an idea for out-and-about footage. You can then wind-sock it more easily.

tom.
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Old May 9th, 2006, 05:49 AM   #128
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I am planning on buying the Rode Deadcat Wind Muff. So that will solve all my outdoor audio problems.

With the Cavision LH77, how to I protect my front element? Does it come with a cap or something like that or do I need to take it off all the time?

Finally, does anyone have recommendations for a good bag for field-use, which can be carried comfortably for like 6 hour walks in Italy.

About filters, I have been looking at these:

Tiffen 82mm Special Effects DV Kit (Color Graduated ND.6, Pro Mist 1/4, Enhancer, Gold Diffusion F/X 1/2 and Soft Pouch)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Hoya 82mm Neutral Density ND 8x (HMC) Multi-Coated Glass Filter
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

The Polarisers are really expensive. If I would go for the best, I am looking at around $329. I am not sure if that's worth it.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Is it also possible to use a filter system on the HDR-HC1E/A1, so you can use 3x3 filters or something in that direction and up to four of them at a time?

Edit:

I forgot to ask if other camera's like the XLH1, VX-200 etcetera also take 82mm filters? If am paying so much for filters, I want to make sure that it is for a long-time.
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Old May 9th, 2006, 10:28 AM   #129
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Quote:
Hello,

You are offering the Cavision LH100 as a special order. I suppose you order this from Cavision. I am looking for the Cavision LH77, for the Sony wide-angle lens. As the shipping for me from Cavision is $45, and they do not have other products I am interested in, I would prefer to order it through B&H and combine it with some other products I need.

Can you please tell me if this is possible.

Thanks. Floris.


From: nospamhere@gmail.com
To: consumervideo@bhphotovideo.com

Our Answer:


Thank you for you interest in B&H and the products we have to offer.

We can get the lh77 (39.95) it is now in our system(skew # CALH77) for phone order only . It will take a while to get it on the web.
I think many of us will find this interesting. It is cheaper as well as at B&H, so you do not need to go through Cavision.
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Old May 9th, 2006, 10:43 AM   #130
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Dang, I'm always too early. First I get my Sony Y lens for $40 too much, and now the LH77 for too much (just arrived yesterday).

In any case, my review of the LH77 is pretty negative. Frankly, I'm kind of tired of many people toting their new product as "oh, it's so great," confusing readers like me. Then when I actually get the product, turns out its not so great.

The LH77 I got is deformed. Looking at the rubber, I can tell there was some manufacturing defect and it seems like the rubber was a bit melted or something (slightly, but it's there). Furthermore, the rubber is bent so that it's not a rectangle, but more like a shape with three straight edges and a top that cuves down. Finally, the screw-on system is horrible. You have to screw it on pretty tight for it to stay on the Y lens. I had it fall off while shooting yesterday. The problem with tightly screwing it on is that the screw pushes in more, which pushes the lens hood AWAY from the Y lens. This creates a gap/hole on one side, which looks ugly. It also slightly distorts the shape of the lens hood as well; I'm not sure if screwing on a filter will work well (though it might, haven't tried it). If you look at Adam's custom A1 thread, there is one picture that actually shows this gap between the lens hood and the Y lens.
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Old May 9th, 2006, 11:03 AM   #131
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But which other options do we have? Only the Century Optics hood, which is $159 and thus a lot more expensive, plus it requires a step-up ring.
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Old May 9th, 2006, 11:53 AM   #132
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True, but still I wish I would have known about these problems beforehand. Sure, overall, it might be a good product and especially for the price, but that's what's annoying - people think they made the best buy in the world and are so pleased with themselves that they only tell others the good points, leaving out all the negative aspects.

Another thing about the LH77 - you can't use a lens cap/protector with it. You can attach 82mm filters, but then your filter will be unprotected.
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Old May 9th, 2006, 12:08 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick
You're right - polarising filter effects are very difficult and time consuming to replicate in post, and sometimes (the reflection in water issue) impossible. But what travel brocures etc show you are snatches in time, and your movie will be a running timeline - two quite different things.

I've used a polarisor and simply turning 90 degrees for your next shot will bring continuity headaches galore (you know how polarisors work?). Talent won't be best pleased at all the life and shine being taken out of her hair, and skin tones take on an unnatural dullness. Removing the sheen from things isn't always a good idea.

Now to Mr Ansel Adams. He was working with ''chips'' that measure 10" x 8". Your 1/3" CMOS measures 4.4 mm x 3.3 mm (think 1/8th inch and you're there). THAT's why using filters is so different for us both. We're using focal lengths of 3 mm, Ansel was using more like 250 mm. Guess which filter will be more in focus?

OK, grads are probably more useful than polarisers, though with such short focal lengths you'll have to be careful over hard and soft grad choices. Also I'd say don't use filters at all when you use the wide-angle. Yo'll be adding three extra elements to the Zeiss line-up - so don't add yet another.

But then again you don't want to allow your HC1 to shoot at a smaller aperture than f/4 if you can help it. The automatic internal ND will soak 3 stops, but if it gets brighter the aperture blades will close down to f8. Not good for sharpness. To avoid this in sunny Italy it might be best to invest in a super multi-coated ND8.

Lens hoods will get in the way of your pop-up flash, but then again, so what? Try and get an aspect ratio hood - especially if you'll be shooting 16:9.

Will the Rode NGT-2 plug in ok? As the internal mics are so difficult to wind-shield, a small stereo unit fitting that special shoe might be an idea for out-and-about footage. You can then wind-sock it more easily.

tom.
Some good points there I think Tom. Yes i know how polarisers work but i hadn't I admit thought about continuity issues with 'proper' films and yes i can see that is going to be a real PITA ! But for Floris' purpose, she's basically shooting holiday footage so continuity isn't really an issue there.
Rode NTG2 or NTG1 will plug straight onto the A1U with XLR module, and the DeadCat is one-size-fits-all for the Videomic, NTG1, NTG2.
One thing Floris - windshields won't *entirely* solve wind-noise. If the wind is strong enough you will still get wind-rumble, just a lot less of it. Something to be aware of. Can't remember which mic you're taking (guess it's NTG1 or NTG2) but i'd advise to use the low-cut filter (if they have one, Videomic does) all the time outdoors to reduce handling noise and wind-rumble. I think the Rode's are anyway *slightly* bass-heavy (if anything) so the low-cut filter is no bad thing at all.

floris - i tend to use 37mm pol.filter and attach it between the camera and the WA lens. A LOT cheaper than 82mm for sure as you've found out looking at the prices of an 82mm hi-quality pol.filter. Bit of a tough pill to swallow that one, so i'd go for a 37mm one. I don't see why you can't put it between camera and lens.

Polariser's secondary effect is that it absorbs about 1 - 1/5stops of light so that's no bad thing in very bright sun, as Tom remarked, it'll keep the aperture getting too small and getting diffraction effects. Also a pol or ND filter can help you get a larger aperture for shallow DOF effect for portrait shots etc. which can look very nice. (Portrait Program AE mode good for this).

Having said all that, i have to now agree with Tom i think as 2 days ago i was shooting a late afternoon (bout an hour or two before sunset) stuff in semi-light / semi-shadow with a 0.7x WA lens and i'd left the pol.filter on (forgot to take it off to be honest). When i finally remembered to take it off, i could actually see that the shot was higher contrast and a bit more punchy without it - it was a pretty subtle difference i have to say, but i think it was there. I actually lost my original multi-coated polariser and so i had to get what i could at the time and got a rather cheaper one simply cos that's all that was available that day and i needed one immediately. Next time i'm passing a decent photo-store i will try to get a Hoya or B+W multi-coated one to replace my current 37mm one (Maruami ?! something like that..)

Back to the late-afternoon thing : It wasn't a not-enough-light-with-the-polariser-on issue as it was still pretty bright, and i checked Data Code and the numbers were fine, no gain or anything. - but definitely a slight contrast reduction with polariser on. First time i've seen that i think. I'll still defnitely use it in bright sunny conditions but remember to take it off when you don't need it.
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Old May 9th, 2006, 02:28 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Thames
True, but still I wish I would have known about these problems beforehand. Sure, overall, it might be a good product and especially for the price, but that's what's annoying - people think they made the best buy in the world and are so pleased with themselves that they only tell others the good points, leaving out all the negative aspects.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=65497
I tried to tell you about this but I didn't mention the gap on one side. Sorry for that. I inserted a little piece of black fabric (about 3cm) under the screw side and there is no visible hole anymore.
I definitely agree with you that LH77 is pretty "toyish", but I still think it's worth of money and the only real way to add filter to Y-lense.
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Old May 9th, 2006, 07:37 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppe Johansson
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=65497
I tried to tell you about this but I didn't mention the gap on one side. Sorry for that. I inserted a little piece of black fabric (about 3cm) under the screw side and there is no visible hole anymore.
I definitely agree with you that LH77 is pretty "toyish", but I still think it's worth of money and the only real way to add filter to Y-lense.
Floris
First off do a little preparation. I suggest reading Barry Braverman's book "Video shooter". Video has very little exposure lattitude, 3 stops max. Don't even compare video to Ansel Adams. As Barry says" avoid midday if at all possible ". If you chose not to do so, then you must use filters. I carry ND .3, .6,. 9 , a polarizer, and a UV as standard equipment. I use the Cokin matt box with adaptor that will fit your Sony lens. Believe me, you must get good video first before post, otherwise you will have great problems.
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