Sony LED Light for the FX7/V1
 

So much talk about the camera, so little talk about the accessories.

Given the need for light in low light situations with these 14/" CMOS cameras, I'm wondering what people think of Sony's new camera light.
HVL-LBP
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...-V1U/acce.html

Saw it at HD World in NYC. Sony rep didn't know much about it though. Said it was not strong, 20W or less. I suspect he was confused about power consumption (16W) and it's tungsten equivalent. It seemed closer to 50W to me. Does anybody know this equivalent?

Rep didn't mention the list price. I'd heard around $400. B&H doesn't even list it among the accessories. Anybody know the list?

It had a dimmer, something not clear to me on the Sony site.

Rep said he thought Litepanels was better (but it's around $800-$1000 depending on accessories). I believe Litepanel draws 7W and illuminates as if it were 25W.

It shouldn't be so hard to get info about this Sony light. Sony has very little info about it.

Anybody know details, have opinions having tested it?

Hi Craig

Yes not for the first time a 'rep' hasn't the first clue about anything... !

Yep that light has a 16watt power-consumption. I estimate an equivalent power-output to be about equivalent of 35-50watts for a tungsten light. That's a bit of an educated guess i admit, but based on various bits and pieces.

It provides a light level of 600lux at 1 metre distance.

The light has a dimmer control yes.

Price in Japan is about 52,000yen and again i estimate based on various factors that it might come in at about US$350 or so. Again, an educated guess on that.

The light has a flip.down diffuser panel and also a flip-up 'concentrater' which i think is for using more telephoto focal-lengths when you don't need a wide-spread of light. To be honest, the light is sounding & looking really quite nice. I think it'll have plenty of power, and as it's only 16watt consumption it should have the advantage that it won't die off in 30-40minutes as a lot of the tungsten lights seem to do.

I do agree that info on this should be easier to find though !!

I was thinking about getting one of those Lite Panels lights, but may hold off for this one, sounds interesting and about half the price. How does this light compare to the lite panel one, as far as intensity of the light? I would need for simple run n gun setups, up to 10 feet distance, would it be sufficient? I like the idea of being able to use the Sony batteries instead of all the other battery power stuff, like the frezzi's.

By the way, I read somewhere that the light will be available in January, 2007.

I'm absolutely sure it will be MORE than sufficient up to 10feet or so. I don't think there will be any problem there at all.

Intensity of the light as i said is a slight mystery at the moment, but if my educated guess at about 35-50watts equivalent output (unoffical guesstimate..) is at all close, then it will provide really quite a lot of light and should be good for substantially beyond 10feet.

Frezzi make lights like the micro-fill and thats i think about 35watts (depends which bulb yu have in it ) and I would say that this new HVL-LBP will be around that sort of light-level. I think at about US$350 (my guess) it would HAVE to be, to be honest....

Only about another month to wait.... we'll see!

I saw the light and played a bit with it. Aimed camera into dark corner and played with the light. Could be 35W but I thought it might be a as much as 50W. I certainly liked it. Diffusion, bard doors, dimmer and uses Sony batteries directly on the back of light or through an extension so you can belt/pocket a battery. Keep in mind that given the low power consumption you can get away with something smaller than a 970 battery too. I'm still leary about HDV but I'd consider buying the light for my PD-170.

Certainly a light like that is a good solution to using the V1 in low light. I've spend too many years wearing a battery belt and don't want to go that route again.

I just found it a bit suprising that the Sony rep didn't seem to see great value in it compared to a Lightpanel, which I've also seen and find it both awkward and expensive.

I wonder how top heavy the camera becomes with the battery attached directly to the light. Those 970 batteries are pretty heavy. But I really like the idea of this light since I too despise those battery belts!

Keep in mind that LED lights are low power consumption, long lasting. You can probably use a battery much smaller than the 970 to match the life of a battery on old Sony 10/20W lights.

After looking at the light I think Sony may be making a marketing mistake by not pushing this "accessory." I can see a whole bunch of Z1, FX1, DP, VX users buying this light. It may be harder to appeal to users of Panasonic, JVC, Canon users since it does use the Sony battery but there are MANY Sony cameras out there that would benefit by this light and tieing to just V1, FX7 is a marketing mistake IMHO.

...reply
 

Hello all.

I demoed this LED light and while the concept and performance is nice, like all LED-based lights, there is a huge curve with regards to output at specific distances.

I have tested, used, and written about countless lights over the years and more recently, about the LED lights, such as LitePanels, VidLED, Varizoom, ZyLight, and have done some testing with this Sony light as well, in addition to others.

They are all great lights based on their intended application, but in short, in dark environments, such as social events (wedding receptions) you will have a huge dropoff after 5-6 feet. Thus, for close-up shots, they are great. VidLED, ZyLight, and Sony show very well with widescreen footage as the spread is more even and not as spotty whereas the Varizoom will show the "circular spot" and then quickly drop off on the 1st and 5th percentage of the camera screen.

Just know that if you're looking for a light that will have a very noticable, bright, long throw, such as when comparing them to a 20W diffused halogen (like Sony's), you may be dissapointed. But, if you want a great filler light and great color representation, the LED lights are great.

Thanks Marshall, great info. Just out of curiosity, where did you get the one you tested? I know Sony is projecting a release date of 1/07. Did you get a 'beta' unit?

My answer is, and I quote..." :) "

Ken, they are showing it at trade shows along with the V1. Not quite the same as taking it for a walk but it wasn't hard to find dimly lit sections of trade show floor within a few feet of the Sony booth at HD World NYC.


Marshall, when you mention 20W Sony are you talking about the Sony 10/20W (20DW2)? It's not an easy thing to diffuse. No easy way to attach something without some jury-rig. It's rather harsh on its own in my opinion. The new 16W(power consumption) HVL-LBP seems to have higher output (even though the fall off may be steeper than a halogen light).

I aimed at a dark area around 10ft away. Yes there was significant fall off but given that it seems brighter (to my eyes) than the 20DW2 I use, the LBP, even with diffuser on, still seems to provide usable fill at that distance.

While Sony rates it at 600lx at 1 meter I'd love to know where it is a 3 meters compared to 20DW2. If one is looking for a longer throw than that, I think one needs to be looking at different lighting (Frezzi for example).

Marshall, if there's a knock at the door, don't answer!! ;)

Anybody knows what is the color temperature of this light? is it daylight equivalent or 3200K?

Anyone know if the light is yet available?

Nope, not yet. I was actually speaking with a few Sony reps yesterday and the story is this....

...DR60 delayed until mid-February due to a software glitch. ($1600)
...LED light - early February ($500)
...DR60/accessory bracket - early February ($175)
...WA lens - available now but impossible to find. More stock expected mid-February. ($550)

Wide Angle Lens for V1U
 

Marshall - that is bad news about the lens - have had it on backorder from BHphotovideo since early Dec. Doesn't look like I will have it for the family ski vacation in early Feb. Any idea where I might look other than BH?

Good info Marshall, thanks

Anyone seen the LED light for sale? Any opinions on how it works?

LED Bulbs & lights on Ebay
 

Hello to all,

I've seen different kinds of LED bulbs with different types of connections on Ebay. The bulbs are anywhere from $20.00 - $70.00 depending on what color & type. Why couldn't we replace the bulb that we have in our NRG's & Frezzi's? I plan on buying 1 in the next week or 2 to test it out.

Angelo

My understanding is that it is daylight balanced (I'm remembering from the Sony V1 promo DVD). I just bought a pair of VidLEDs (one 5600k another 3200k). My feeling is that you need both. Yes you can gel a 5600k, but you are significantly cutting down your light. 3200k is probably the most useful, since that's often when you need more light --when there is no daylight. 5600k is useful for fill in daylight, to give more directionality to lighting when it's cloudy or shady, or in a darkish room with ambient daylight.

Typically I don't like the way on camera lights look. Looks like deer in the headlights too much. I try to move them off camera when I can.

The Sony does seem considerably more powerful than the VidLEDs, which might be nice to have the added power, but I don't think it can quite replace AC lights yet, so I'll still have to run around with those.

Sony HVL-LBP
 

Finally got an email tonight from BHphotovideo- the light is on it's way and will arrive tomorrow - will be able to use it on my Colorado ski trip - will report back how well it works - I already have the Litepanel mini system - both 3200 and 5600 heads. I would agree with the above - I am sorry that I bought the 5600K (a year ago) - use a gel on it most of the time which cuts down the output. Will be able to compare the FX1 and the V1U cameras with both lights (Sony and the Litepanel).

That would be really great feedback Barry. And you have experience of the Litepanels too so that is another plus. Looking forward to your opinions on it.

I did some research and indeed it is 5600K, what a drag, most of the time you need lights is when you are indoor, not outdoor, then why would they make a outdoor equivalent? I don't think it would mix very well with indoor light, I wonder how much loss if one would put a indoor gel filter on it, Barry please give us some feed back after your ski trip.
Thanks.

Sony HVL-LBP
 

The video light arrived today while I was on my flight to Colorado so I had it overnighted and should receive it tomorrow. I certainly hope there is a way to shift it to 3200. Using 5600 indoors plays havoc with your white balance - turns everybody's face blue etc. I remember seeing pics of the light with a sort of yellowish glow so maybe there is a way without losing that much light.
Will keep you posted.

Sony HVL-LBP
 

Sorry but posted twice - slow internet connection in my hotel

If you white balance it indoor with the light on or put your camera on outdoor preset then your subject should looks right, but the background will be very saturated, but please let us know if you could change it to indoor, thanks again.

If you literally stick an LED bulb in the place of a halogen, or other for that matter, you can have some seriously bad, adverse affects - trust me. Aside from dabbling in electrical engineering years ago, one of my main projects was actually creating LED-based diodes. The way that they require power is much different from anything else, with limiters, transisitors, etc. If you were to simply replace the bulb, you would most likely blow out the LED within seconds and depending on the power from the light (NRG/Frezzi...) you can then have internal damage.

For event work, LED lights won't cut it as the dropoff is about 4-6 feet, whether it's the VidLED's, ZyLight, LitePanels....you name it, I've tested it. The Sony light is intriguing, but it's not that different in terms of throw distance. You will be much better off with a halogen-based light for HDV cameras.

this is valuable information Marshall - thanks for posting this up. have you used the Frezzi Microfill? The disappointment to me with a light like the Frezzi is, I think, that the standard battery it comes with is NiCad which is ancient tech and rather annoying that they don't supply with a NiMH battery instead. can you confirm whether Frezzi still ship lights like Microfill with a Nicad battery please??

Sony HVL-LBP
 

I would agree that LED lights - at least by current technology, do not take the place of other more powerful systems but for those of us who want fill light in dimly lit situations with closeups between 3-6 feet they do have a role - plus the convenience of a self contained battery system. I have used the Litepanels mini-floods for over a year now and have been generally happy - I first started off with the 5600K flood and had to use a gel for indoor use which cuts down the output. I recently purchased a 3200K flood and it does have better light output and doesn't wrec havoc with the white balance. Today I tested the new Sony light and was pleasantly surprised - I did a test (very non-scientific - I am not a videographer - just an obsessed hobbyist) of shooting video in a relatively dimly lit room 5 feet away from my kids using natural looking skintone as a measure - I alternately used the Sony HVL-LBP and the Litepanels 3200K and 5600K - turned the camera on and off between each test and was using auto white balance. Then played around with the outdoor setting for white balance (with the two 5600K lights) using the wheel to obtain a minus reading for the outdoor white balance.

Some observations on the Sony light:

1. The output seems to be better than the 5600K litepanel.

2. The color temp (both lights rated the same in the literature) does seem to be different. The Litepanel light gives a definite bluish tint to skintones while the Sony is almost accetable as is - just a little tweaking of the white balance is necessary.

3. The Sony light seems to have a broader projection and more even distribution of light than the Litepanel mini-flood.

4. There is a condenser lens on the Sony which effectively markedly increases the light output and transforms it into a spot. It also has a diffuser for softening the light.

5. I also like the battery level indicator and the fact that the light can be powered by the same batteries as the V1U camera. They claim that it will last for 2 hours on full brightness with the NPF-770 battery - you don't have to use the monster 970 battery with it.

Bottom line, I wish this light was available when I purchased the second Litepanel head. At least by my initial observations it seems to be a very well made unit.

Thanks for the info Barry, with the Sony, I know that your subject skintone is almost correct but what is the background looks like indoor? I assume the Sony does not come with a 3200K filter?

Not a clue - can't help you with that one so you may stand a better chance at just calling them. I haven't used the Frezzi lights but a lot of folks I've talked to love them and some have mentioned the NRG Varalux as well. Years ago I used NRG lights with the battery belts and while the lights were great, I hated the belts but it's almost a necessity to go back to it. Bescor makes a shoulder-strapped battery that works with the NRG and Frezzi lights but you need to make sure you get the correct connector (the Frezzi has eight or so options, for instance).

I have the Frezzi minifill and also NRG varilux, Frezzi is great, I use the Frezzi with a soft box and so I have to use 100 watts bulb, because the soft box will cuts almost half of the output, if you don't use the soft box, get the wide angle bulb, I think they make it in 35 and 50 watts, you can use any kind of battery you like, don't have to buy one from Frezzi, I have battery belt from NRG and Bescor, also several cheap 12 volts lead acid battery that you can get with a pouch and wear on your belt, the NRG are nicad, everything I bought from NRG malfunction at one time or another, from charger to battery to the belt plugin to the varilux, and the company don't stand behind their products, the only thing that didn't broke from that company is their A/C lights, but I don't use them enough to put them through their paces.
I just want LED because I'm getting tired of belts plus I do alot of on location shoots and I can't bring lead acid battery on the plane and so I have to take the NRG nicads and they sucks and I have no confident in their reliability and the company.

Sony HVL-LBP
 

Khoi

I don't seem to be noticing any problems with oversaturaated backgrounds. With this light there is no place to put on a 3200K gel. I am finding with the V1U by modifying the outdoor preset for white balance into the minus range that it is very easy to correct for proper skintone. Considering that you get both spot and flood in the same light, a diffusion filter, battery level indicator, apparently more light output, and it uses camera batteries the price seems reasonable compared with the Litepanels unit (nearly $ 350 difference).

Ok thanks Barry, I think I will try it, if it doesn't work for me then I will try the Zylight, that one has 30watts and can be dial to outdoor or indoor plus some other stuff, but it is quite expensive.
Thanks again for all of your help.
Take care.

Varizoom S-2000
 

How about the Varizoom S-2000 as a alternative. Read a good review at

http://www.dv.com/reviews/reviews_it...leId=196602658.

I would not know if it is any better/worse than the Sony. Slightly cheaper thought.

sony HVL-LBP
 

I had considered the Varizoom but the extra battery attachment + rather flimsy barndoor and filter attachments steered me away from it. Having used the Sony light in total darkness as well as indoor daylight fillin for the last two days while on vacation (ski resort), I am very happy with the performance and the rugged construction.

Barry

this has been very helpful info that you've posted up.

One more question - how is the "drop off" over a slightly longer distance? compared to halogen lights? Do you think the Sony light will give enoujgh coverage to shoot from say 10-12feet away in a live band environment (really fairly pretty dim stage lighting). Some people say LED lights tend to experience significant "drop off" that isn't such a problem with halogens.

any input on that would be great.

thanks again

Sony HVL-LBP dropoff
 

The Sony light as with the Litepanels system does exhibit significant dropoff -I believe 10-12 feet would be pushing the limit. Most of my video using either light has been shot in the 4-6 ft. range, tops at 8 ft.

thanks again Barry for that.