25p issues will NOT be fixed. Sony to offer full refund. at DVinfo.net

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Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old January 22nd, 2007, 09:01 AM   #1
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25p issues will NOT be fixed. Sony to offer full refund.

I have just been called by SilverSupport and the firmware upgrade performed at Xmas was the final fix.

Sony recognise that 25P is unacceptably poor and are offering full refunds. It is obviously a fundamental design problem that cannot be resolved in firmware as they had previously said it would.

The V1E will no longer be sold as a progressive camera in 1080i50 regions but as a 50i only HDV camera.

I have spoken to my dealer and they have just been told and have just sent emails to their affected customers. They recommend the XH-A1 which is what I'll exchange my V1E for.

TT

P.S. The V1Us do not have a problem.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 09:34 AM   #2
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Wow. That's a remarkable stance. Does 'full refund' mean, return your camera for full money back?
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 09:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez
Wow. That's a remarkable stance. Does 'full refund' mean, return your camera for full money back?
No not really, they are stuffed under the misrepresentation of goods under the sale of goods act here in the UK. They have to offer full refund.

Yep, FULL refund. It is no longer a 25P camera only interlaced!! They are positioning it as a low cost Z1E!!! Now that's a remarkable stance if there ever was one!!

I am hacked off though! This must rank along side exploding batteries recall and Playstation delays in league of cock-ups...

TT
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 10:14 AM   #4
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I was initially excited then a bit disappointed with the V1E and FX7 when they were announced, 1/4in chip size, smaller form, lcd back down usual position...the 25p was what seemed to be the saving grace...shame
Lets hope they stop messing about and give us out and out proper successors to the FX1E and Z1E

Last edited by Damian Clarke; January 22nd, 2007 at 11:04 AM.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 10:28 AM   #5
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Whoops. Well I guess that one is off my shopping list, as it's progressive scan or nothing for me...

Poor show!
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 10:33 AM   #6
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whow thanks for that info i was just about to buy this camera this week as
my dealer said they were getting "FIXED new batch in that was definetely
ok with the 25p fixed" dont know if they have been told about this what a
disaster for sony shame as i really wanted this camera but if only 50i then
i will think again thanks for important info tony
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 10:51 AM   #7
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just checked sony broadcast website in uk about v1 and anything about
25p progressive has been deleted to the last time i checked which they
showed quite a lot concerning 25p maybe sony will drop the price to be
compatible with the canons but sadly no progressive maybe go for a cheap
FX1 or the canon time will tell ?
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 11:01 AM   #8
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Tony, I don't know what to say, but you and many other who have been so helpful and professional in handling VIE "i" and "p" stuffs, you are all heros to me bcs you have just saved my hard earning money as I was really really going to order V1 at Malaysia.

It's great to know you all !! Thank you !!

* * * * *

Now the question is, what makes V1E diffrent from FX7 ? perviously my predict is V1E is an overpriced FX7 with XLR + slightly more menu option + 90% good progressive. Now the progressive is dropped out from the camera, just wondering how lower the price would be... V1E in this case still very attractive to people who don't do "p"... if the price could be just 200GBP more then FX7 (for extra menu option & XLR..).. V1E in this case will still make a good sales over europe.

But if V1E still something trying to compete XH-A1 in term of price.. then personally I would recommend A1 over V1E just for it wider len, larger CCD.

While on the other hand, why V1E can't perform like V1U remain the myth to everyone especially please don't forget, this is a native progressive camera.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 11:03 AM   #9
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Do you mean http://www.sonybiz.net/?

All the information about progressive nature of the camera have indeed been removed, except from the flash presentation, which still is showing it off.

Interestingly, I have just received an e-mail from PrimeSupport stating that the first fix to 25p is the final one, the softness having being removed and the "line flicker" or "marching ants" can be eliminated by reducing the Sharpness setting.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 11:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Interestingly, I have just received an e-mail from PrimeSupport stating that the first fix to 25p is the final one, the softness having being removed and the "line flicker" or "marching ants" can be eliminated by reducing the Sharpness setting.
I was told the same on the phone but that does not solve all the other issues that stop the P footage being up to acceptable quality. The oil paint effect and block noise issues remain. :( The line flicker does not go away and the image turns to mush before the edge over enhancement disappears.

That's why they are giving refunds because it simply is not good enough.

It's a great shame.

TT
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 11:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Tremble
That's why they are giving refunds because it simply is not good enough.

It's a great shame.

TT
Sony has been able to outsell every other DV and HDV camcorder for a decade -- even without 24p/25p -- because the vast majority of commercial work is done in 50i/60i and 50p/60p. Sony will lose very few Region 50 sales.

The internet is not representative of the vast number of camcorder buyers around the world. For example, if you regularly read the Japanese magazines -- Sony's home market -- you simply see nothing about 24p.

But, I am very suprprised Sony can't get 50% of 50i working the same way it can get 50% of 60i. Very, very strange. Although, JVC never offered a 720p25 version of its HD1/HD10 which we all wondered about.

And, I am sorry you guys have had to waste so much time. Good luck with whatever you buy!

Steve
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 12:09 PM   #12
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I have not received any mail from Sony

Hi,

I have not received any mail from Sony today - however I have spoken with them over the phone on Friday when I heard nothing about this news above. Since they told it takes more time to find the fix, I requested my cam back from them with no fix, until they find the way - the cam just arrived today by UPS.

My dealer is sunk in deep silence ever since I wrote an email asking a replace Canon A1 unit (I have kind of expected this outcome with the 25p fix...).

Now I have no idea what to do, I have purchased quite an amount of other accessories that are Sony specific - must return all those, what a hassle!

I would rather go for a V1U - is there any chance to get that as a replacement unit?
Anyone to tell me whats the big deal about using 24p instead of 25p? Plus it has 30p also. If there is a requirement of 25p from the client side, any NLE can make 25p of 24p or 30p?
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 12:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
Sony has been able to outsell every other DV and HDV camcorder for a decade -- even without 24p/25p -- because the vast majority of commercial work is done in 50i/60i and 50p/60p.
In my opinion "was" done in 50i/60i. Most commercial stuff is destined for the web these days. Progressive makes it just a little bit easier.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 02:27 PM   #14
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I'm stunned. I expected Sony to struggle with this a bit and get some replacement cams out as a worst case fix. What in the world makes a 50i/25P camera hose the progressive image when the 60i/30P/24P camera with the exact same sensors and guts works?

They've just handed the indie film maker audience to Canon and Panasonic in PAL countries. Sure its a smaller market, but still...

I bet within a year they'll release an incremental update to the V1 line with proper 25P.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 02:32 PM   #15
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This time last year YouTube had about 2,500 visitors a month. This year they get over 20 million visitors a month.

TV broadcasters are losing their audience share to the internet. Many large corporations are already looking at how they can spend their advertising dollar on internet video - looking at ways of "engaging" viewers.

Internet bandwidth becomes less of an issue for many as ADSL2 and ADSL Max are rolled out, potentially offering plenty of bandwidth for H.264 or WMV HD. And not only that but some crossover of internet and TV content is expected.

Large companies will want to differentiate themselves from their competition, and one way to do that is by working with better production values (ie. not a webcam).

A friend of mine worked on a vodcast recently for a major international corporation. They were using XDCAM HD. A little more than $5000. They did a really bad job on the chromakey, but that's besides the point.

Like you said yourself - sometimes there are new ways of doing things. The landscape is changing. And needing progressive scan is part of that landscape.
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