25p issues will NOT be fixed. Sony to offer full refund.

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by Philip Williams

If this thread needed to be completely removed for whatever reason, I'm sure that would have already happened. Chris runs a pretty tight ship here and if Tony was simply telling untruths about Sony Prime Support, he'd be smacked down in short order.

All I have ever tried to do when reporting the initial 25P problems and now is post exactly what I have been told by Sony Prime Support.

I have no axe to grind with anyone and certainly not Sony and I have used Sony cameras professionally for a long time and anticipate doing so in the future.

I have absolutely no reason to lie about the 25P problems and I posted them here in good faith that the information might help someone. I do the same with this update from prime support. Do you really think Prime Support are wrong or they are lying to me?

Heck, I hope it helps ALL other PAL region customers in the future if it gets Sony to take their quality control a little more seriously!

I thought these forums were for this type of information, to directly benefit its membership. I fully accept people's right not to believe everything posted here it is their right. Please contact your dealers or Sony for confirmation.

TT

[Ing Poh Hii]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

You REALLY need to read posts more closely. I'm only commenting on the V1U.

It would be helpful if you mention it specifically in each post, especially in the post initialed by Tony for V1E issues only.

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

I've got no idea what's going on with the V1E. And, frankly, none of the V1E posters have anything valid to say about our perfectly functioning V1U.

I thought our members here (at least for the V1E threads) are quite clear about we talk only V1E or any V1 unit for PAL land. Somehow we would wish V1E just as good as V1U which is "perfectly functioning" as you said.

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Moreover your comment that "aliasing" should make the picture look much *smooth* but less sharpness," is 100% incorrect.

Sony is well known for keeping the cut-off frequency high which allows a bit of aliasing which makes diagonals LESS smooth, but also allows more detail. You've got your understanding of aliasing backwards.

Sorry about this, I slept less then 3 hours last night, I treat "aliasing" to "anti-aliasing", it is my mistake and I agree with you that aliasing makes diagonals less smooth with more detail out.

But this is still questionable:
"I" may be higher aliasing, so less smooth & more detail
"P" is then more smooth & less detail

While based on the picture provided by Tony
"P" is NOT smooth as a lot of area have some weired lining (more like de-interlacing effect)
"P" is less detail but unlikely caused by low aliasing but some REAL oil paint filter which is impossible to be used to make better "I" picture, but more like a post-CMOS filtering effect (try it in Photoshop and see who can make a painting reverse to a photo).

Unless "I" has by-passed that filter completely (It's only Sony know what are they doing) and "P" has been made to have to accept the stream from the filtering process, I see no reason a firmware fix can't be made easily.

So probably the new V1E (or let's call it V1.2e) has to re-route the stream and make no different to provide "I" and "P", both come directly from the sensor without any additional filtering process.

Sony may still busy in fixing this and hopefully tomorrow we have some good news. But at least now if you go to sonybiz.net, look for V1E, you see nothing about "P", it is just a 1080i camcorder. This support what Tony has shared with all of us.

[John Hewat]

If they are going to position this as a cheaper Z1 then I like to think the price will drop even further. Shouldn't the thing now be priced closer to the FX7?

What a pain in the neck.

[Zsolt Gordos]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

I've just received an email from the UK that disputes "the will NEVER be fixed" claim. My information is that Sony has not given-up fixing the V1E.

My feeling is this thread should fully be replaced by DSE or Chris WITH a comment that dvinfo is awaiting clarification from Sony itself. Right now it's pure speculation by one poster who has been told something by one person at Sony.

Until Sony makes an announcement, by definition everything posted is speculation.

I hve received another sort of email from the UK, that disputes the "fix has not solved the problem" claim. My information is that Sony has tried to convince me that my camera is just fine.

See for yourself, it is not speculation, the original email is available as for proof:

"Hello Zsolt,

The firmware upgrade resolved the resolution issue with your camera in
25P. The resultant image can display "Line Flicker" if the sharpness is
turned up in the Picture Profile menu. Reducing this to a value around 3
will eliminate the Line Flicker. This is subjective and you will need to
determine what setting suits your needs best.

The HVR-V1e remains the only HDV camera whose chip scans in real
progressive mode in full 1080 resolution.

If you are unhappy with the camera after adjusting the sharpness, please
contact your dealer.

Best regards

PrimeSupport
B2B Service and Support"

Woah. Sharpness to 3? What do you think Steve? Last time I did it, you chellenged whether I really wanted to shoot HD if I didnt want the sharpness.
I may well put some grease on the lens to make it intransparable, then no flicker would be visible at all.
And I must be proud of having the only HDV camera whose chip scans in real progressive mode in full 1080 resolution.

They employ marketers in the Support center. Smart. But it makes understandable why the fix is not yet there. They are working on sales pitch instead.

[Tony Tremble]

Zsolt

Well done for posting that.

If your turn down the sharpnes to 3 in progressive mode all you get is mush. Zsolt I wonder if you could post some grabs to show people. They won't believe it when they see it!! :)

I've boxed my camera up now ready to go back so can't shoot any more footage.

TT

[Ing Poh Hii]

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

Zsolt I wonder if you could post some grabs to show people. They won't believe it when they see it!! :)

I would say even those grabs have been made available by many of you for long time, there are still *people* find all sort of strange theory to DISBELIEVE or simply doesn't want to accept it even they probably see it many many times.

** again, V1E only :) **

[Zsolt Gordos]

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

Zsolt

Well done for posting that.

If your turn down the sharpnes to 3 in progressive mode all you get is mush. Zsolt I wonder if you could post some grabs to show people. They won't believe it when they see it!! :)

I've boxed my camera up now ready to go back so can't shoot any more footage.

TT

I will try my best Tony. However my cam is still a "virgin" in terms of fixing, as last time I asked the guy at Sony to fix once the final version is around, rather than sending it back and forth by courier with the incomplete fix.
That time my understanding was that the final fix was a couple of days away - Sony Support gave me that info.
Then last Friday I had enough of waiting and asked them to send back the unit, so at least until the fix arrives I could shoot in 50i.
Then on Monday the bad news came along with my cam....

The weather here is now reminding me the worst of Britain, not easy to get out for shooting - I dont think indoors would give sufficient results for assessment.
Once weather will be less rainy, I will go out and shoot something.

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Zsolt Gordos

Woah. Sharpness to 3? What do you think Steve? Last time I did it, you chellenged whether I really wanted to shoot HD if I didnt want the sharpness.
I may well put some grease on the lens to make it intransparable, then no flicker would be visible at all.

I've got the FX7 which produces essentially the same picture, but of course without the progressive mode. I've tried different sharpness settings and would never choose '3' since it's just too soft. I want to know that I've shot in HD, not 'psuedo HD'. ;)

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

I thought these forums were for this type of information, to directly benefit its membership.

Yes. It's for INFORMATION. Key word: INFORMATION.

It is NOT a place to flame fellow members and rant and rail. Ranting and railing is not informative. If you want to get emotional and vent your anger / frustration / dissatisfaction / whatever, then this is definitely the wrong place. Instead I wholeheartedly urge you to exercise your freedom of speech and start your own web site, message board, blog, whatever, and run it they want you want. Meanwhile I'll continue to exercise my freedom of speech, and run this place the way I want, which is to keep things TECHNICAL and INFORMATIVE and above all, courteous and professional, and free of F.U.D.

F.U.D. -- Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt -- is manifested in such posts as "if they can't get it together, then we'll never get our money back" and similar nonsense. If you feel compelled to champion this "sky is falling" mentality, then please go elsewhere. If you're not happy with the gear or the company that makes it, then by all means GET RID OF IT. If you want to deal with real crisis, just watch the evening news. This isn't life-threatening stuff here; it's just talk about tools, and for crying out loud, if you're not happy with the gear then get your money back and move on.

This site is for INFORMATION ONLY. I'm not interested in emotional opinions; they're not productive. If you really need to express an opinion and spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, then start your own web site.

Meanwhile since *this* site is for INFORMATION, and since there's some seriously conflicting information in this particular thread -- along with a lot of FUD that I've had to remove -- it is now closed, pending further INFORMATION directly from SONY.

If anybody has some INFORMATION to share, please contact me directly -- offline -- at chris at dvinfo dot net, and I'll post it. Thanks in advance for understanding,