Rolling shutter example

Scott Hayes · June 18th, 2008, 07:49 PM

at this point it is more of a want, than a need. I really enjoy shooting with paid
off gear and having no credit card debt. I have tried to get a demo to try and
I don't think I can get my hands on one quick enough. I may order one
tomorrow and shoot with it saturday night, if it sucks, I can send it back.

Andrew Wheatley · June 20th, 2008, 03:17 AM

I just picked up my brand new Z7 and it is awesome (upgraded from an FX1)!

The rolling shutter...now...i have yet to do flash tests...but...straight line tests and 'wobble' tests...you really really have to push it around, and even then it really isn't noticable when you play it back....nothing like the videos from the HV20 people have posted. Sony's Exmor or whatever process does a really good job at removing slant and wobble...now just to test it on the flash...

but even so it is a really really nice camera, feels great, heaps of control nice sharp image, no focus problems...well auto focus is not great but hey this is a manual camera...and i probably need to do the flange thing...

really happy so far....so good...

Marco Dias · June 20th, 2008, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Wheatley

No focus problems...well auto focus is not great but hey this is a manual camera...

That's the problem, as a wedding videographer you need a camera with a good auto focus... "Run & Gun" style, no time to sit and manual focus.

Andrew Wheatley · June 20th, 2008, 05:44 AM

The focus isn't that bad...at full tele in pretty nasty low light it takes about 1 sec to focus on stuff that is close to background colour...z1 is about 0.5 to do the same, but in decent light it is pretty sweet.

I do weddings and generally use manual with auto assist for when i really need it. With manual I can do focus pulls and the like.

Scott Hayes · June 20th, 2008, 07:38 AM

enjoy your new gear! post some clips soon.

Michael Poole · November 30th, 2008, 05:13 AM

i am with you i was just to about to buy a z7 had my mind made up after looking around for the best camera in low light for wedding etc until the sale guys said the rolling shutter and i said what is that and said some frame are a little over exposed not the case Cmos chips are crap bring on RED!!

Scott Hayes · November 30th, 2008, 05:48 AM

RED using CMOS chips as well. have fun spending 35K on RED for a wedding camera.

Ryan Valle · November 30th, 2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes

RED using CMOS chips as well. have fun spending 35K on RED for a wedding camera.

Yup. I saw a rolling shutter example for a RED One it seems more severe than the ones from the z7. Perhaps its due to the larger sensors. I would like to see what RED has done to fix this problem with the upcoming Scarlett and Epic Cameras.

Greg Laves · November 30th, 2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Poole

Cmos chips are crap bring on RED!!

I really doubt that "CMOS chips are crap" since Sony video, Red video, Canon DSLR's and Nikon DSLR's are all jumping on the CMOS bandwagon. I find that 99% of the horror stories about the V1, Z7, S270, EX1, EX3 are being spread by people who have probably never used one or even seen one. I have a V1 and aside from the limited low light capability of the V1, I have been really happy with it. No CMOS/rolling shutter horror stories to report. And I have shot a lot of footage that can't be shot according to all the rumor spreaders.

Brian Rhodes · November 30th, 2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes

it really isn't that bad. flash is flash, and I doubt they will notice it. what were
settings? gain, shutter?

I agree your clients want notice; you get similar effect with the Z1 which has CCD
The Wedding Demo1 on my site was shot with V1u and ZU the bride coming down the aisle is shot with the V1U Cmoss. The Bride and Farther Dancing with the Lien Napkins are shot with the Z1u flashes are going off on both scenes not a big difference. I have own the Z7u good cam but if you can afford the extra chash go for the PMW-EX1. The Z7u focus wonders a bit in low light The wide angle for the Z7 performs a lot better I tested the prototype at NAB on my Z7U do not know if the Lens as been release yet. (Sony VCL308BWH) Shot the Studo Set Clip with the Z7

The rolling shutter is a none issue for me.

DVDAction

Robert Bec · November 30th, 2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Poole

i am with you i was just to about to buy a z7 had my mind made up after looking around for the best camera in low light for wedding etc until the sale guys said the rolling shutter and i said what is that and said some frame are a little over exposed not the case Cmos chips are crap bring on RED!!

I have two Sony Z7's i shoot weddings not a problem at all

Why don't you hire the camera and find out first hand if it is an issue.

IT SEEMS THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT HAVE ISSUES ARE THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T OWN A Z7

WHY ISN'T THERE ANY COMPLAINTS FROM GUYS THAT ACTUALLY OWN THEM

Tom Hardwick · December 1st, 2008, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Bec

WHY ISN'T THERE ANY COMPLAINTS FROM GUYS THAT ACTUALLY OWN THEM

C'mon Robert - we all try and justify the decisions we make through life. From wife to car, house to camera, we all make the choice on the pros and cons presented to us at the time.

Here's the thing - my just-under-4-minute montage section on last week's wedding contains 64 flashes. Don't get me wrong - I really like the way this puts the happy couple under the paparazzi-spotlight and in gentle slo-mo the flashes can be seen to build and die. I used a Z1 (CCD).

In the summer of this year I used an EX1 (CMOS). The slo-mo montage is really spoilt by the quarter and third frame over-exposures so typical of CMOS flash capture. OK, the couple won't know any different, but I certainly do. CCDs are just better under electronic flash at this stage in the game, and that's a sure thing.

tom.

Greg Laves · December 1st, 2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

In the summer of this year I used an EX1 (CMOS). The slo-mo montage is really spoilt by the quarter and third frame over-exposures so typical of CMOS flash capture. OK, the couple won't know any different, but I certainly do. CCDs are just better under electronic flash at this stage in the game, and that's a sure thing.
tom.

I can see the bright bands caused by flashes and I don't really care for it. Since I am not a Wedding photog, it isn't a big issue with my shooting. But if the bright bands that appear for a frame bother you, why don't you try putting a white semi-transparent matte over that frame and then the bands probably wouldn't be objectionable to anyone. To be honest, I haven't really tried this but it seems like it would be a very easy solution. I think it would make it look like a flash captured with a CCD camera, with the whole frame practiaclly blown out and only a slight hint of the subjects being visable.

Tom Hardwick · December 1st, 2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Laves

But if the bright bands that appear for a frame bother you, why don't you try putting a white semi-transparent matte over that frame and then the bands probably wouldn't be objectionable to anyone. To be honest, I haven't really tried this but it seems like it would be a very easy solution.

Not sure if you read my post through Greg. In less than 4 minutes of video there were 64 flashes. Most DSLRs put out two flashes for each exposure, and some fire long bursts to get the exposure correct. Correcting that little lot is not what I'm paid for.

Phil Burton · December 1st, 2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Bec

I have two Sony Z7's i shoot weddings not a problem at all

Why don't you hire the camera and find out first hand if it is an issue.

IT SEEMS THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT HAVE ISSUES ARE THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T OWN A Z7

WHY ISN'T THERE ANY COMPLAINTS FROM GUYS THAT ACTUALLY OWN THEM

Good point and I seem to be one of those being put off after using the PD170 & VXs for some years.

Are there any alternative cams that others have considered from the Panasonic/Canon/JVC stables?

Phil

November 30th, 2008, 05:13 AM	#51
Michael Poole Tourist Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 2	rolling shutter i am with you i was just to about to buy a z7 had my mind made up after looking around for the best camera in low light for wedding etc until the sale guys said the rolling shutter and i said what is that and said some frame are a little over exposed not the case Cmos chips are crap bring on RED!!

June 18th, 2008, 07:49 PM	#46
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	at this point it is more of a want, than a need. I really enjoy shooting with paid off gear and having no credit card debt. I have tried to get a demo to try and I don't think I can get my hands on one quick enough. I may order one tomorrow and shoot with it saturday night, if it sucks, I can send it back.

June 20th, 2008, 03:17 AM	#47
Andrew Wheatley Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 26	I just picked up my brand new Z7 and it is awesome (upgraded from an FX1)! The rolling shutter...now...i have yet to do flash tests...but...straight line tests and 'wobble' tests...you really really have to push it around, and even then it really isn't noticable when you play it back....nothing like the videos from the HV20 people have posted. Sony's Exmor or whatever process does a really good job at removing slant and wobble...now just to test it on the flash... but even so it is a really really nice camera, feels great, heaps of control nice sharp image, no focus problems...well auto focus is not great but hey this is a manual camera...and i probably need to do the flange thing... really happy so far....so good...

June 20th, 2008, 05:44 AM	#49
Andrew Wheatley Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 26	The focus isn't that bad...at full tele in pretty nasty low light it takes about 1 sec to focus on stuff that is close to background colour...z1 is about 0.5 to do the same, but in decent light it is pretty sweet. I do weddings and generally use manual with auto assist for when i really need it. With manual I can do focus pulls and the like.

June 20th, 2008, 07:38 AM	#50
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	enjoy your new gear! post some clips soon.

November 30th, 2008, 05:48 AM	#52
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	RED using CMOS chips as well. have fun spending 35K on RED for a wedding camera.