Z5 or Z7? at DVinfo.net

Jeroen Wolf · October 7th, 2008, 10:05 AM

I currently own a Z1 and thought the Z5 was the natural choice for a next camera but then I noticed the Z5 sells for 3900 euro's and the Z7 for 4500. Since the Z7 includes the CF-recorder (worth around 700.- ?)and the option to change lenses, I would say there is no reason for me to buy the Z5...

Or am I missing something? (based in the Netherlands, btw)

Wolf

Tom Hardwick · October 7th, 2008, 10:33 AM

The Z7 may be seen as too big a step-up for a lot of current Z1 owners in as much as lots of them don't need the lens interchangeability and it's inability to work with their current non zoom-through wide-angle converters.

The Z5 seems a more logical Z1 replacement to me. It fights off the Canon XH-A1 by matching its 20x zoom, looks and feels like the Z1 and moves up in the low-light stakes by using CMOS chips.

But there go Sony again - subdividing the niche.

tom.

Alex Williams · October 7th, 2008, 10:59 AM

What is a z5? Is this the same as a z7u? If so the zoom is 12.

Jeroen Wolf · October 7th, 2008, 11:13 AM

Hi Tom, thanks for the response. But you agree with me that -looking at these prices and given the fact I don't use WA converters- there is no reason for me NOT to buy the Z7.

I can get a Z7 for less the price than Z5 plus CF-recorder plus the ability to change lenses (which ups the second hand value, I imagine)

My big question is: Why did they price this -new- Z5 to be more expensive than the the Z7, based on the assumption that every potential Z5 buyer would want the optional CF-recorder? Or is this a wrong assumption? (and is't the issue of non-compatible WA converteres a marginal one?)

Wolf

Tom Hardwick · October 7th, 2008, 11:27 AM

Alex - would I lie to you?

Jeroen - if you're quoting real street prices (and the Z5 has yet to be given one of these in reality) then yes, the Z7 looks to be a better bet. But you've got to want and need to change lenses to go for this camera - as EX3 owners do over EX1 buyers. If you're off on safari, no question. If you're a run 'n' gun man then the 20x plus a slim wide-converter gives you a huge focal length range.

The Z5 is the one I'd choose to replace my Z1 with at this stage, but not before I'd had all three cameras laid out before me and a cool hour with which to play with them. The V1 was never in the running, but then I've always considered going down a chip size isn't an option.

tom.

Scott Hayes · October 7th, 2008, 11:36 AM

I was about to go down the same path. IF you can find an EX1 in the $5500 range, snatch it up and don't look back. Now that there are viable cheap alternatives to the SxS cards, it makes no sense to spend $5400 on a 1/3" chip camera. Archival hard drive space is dirt cheap as well for backing up. Just something else to consider, unless you like having tape backup.

Jeroen Wolf · October 7th, 2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes

I was about to go down the same path. IF you can find an EX1 in the $5500 range, snatch it up and don't look back. Now that there are viable cheap alternatives to the SxS cards, it makes no sense to spend $5400 on a 1/3" chip camera. Archival hard drive space is dirt cheap as well for backing up. Just something else to consider, unless you like having tape backup.

You know, I've been eyeing the EX's and feel terribly attracted to them. I finished a doc earlier this year and was thinking the EX1 would have made many scenes look much better than the Z1. Plus going tapeless seemed so 'clean'. (but you wind up with lots of big harddrives, as opposed to lots of small tapes...)
But I make my money doing clips that are posted on the web. Tape is an easy workflow- no dumping, no archiving. I don't even shoot HDV anymore- why bother for the web? Or even for DVD? Editing DV is quick and painless. I don't know about XDCAM. I have the feeling things have to be sorted out by a number of parties before it's smooth and reliable. The words of a late adopter...

So that's why I've slowly started to consider the Z7/5. I like the lowlight features. And I get to experiment with a little CF-stuff on the side. (does that CF-recorder work on a Z1 as well?)

However, my heart still throbs for the EX-series... how much did you say those cheap alternative SXS cards go for, Scott?

Greg Laves · October 7th, 2008, 02:26 PM

The hands on preview by B & H seemed to indicate that the Z5 has a slight advantage in low light when compared to the Z7. Even though they both have 1/3" CMOS sensors. The Z5 is supposed to have slightly better processing resulting in the slight advantage. I have a V1 and a 20X lens is nice. Too many choices. Someday they will have the "perfect" camcorder so the choice will be easy.

Robert Bec · October 7th, 2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Laves

The hands on preview by B & H seemed to indicate that the Z5 has a slight advantage in low light when compared to the Z7. Even though they both have 1/3" CMOS sensors. The Z5 is supposed to have slightly better processing resulting in the slight advantage. I have a V1 and a 20X lens is nice. Too many choices. Someday they will have the "perfect" camcorder so the choice will be easy.

I cant see the Z5 being slightly better in low light they are mechanically the same except for the lens. I know the Z5 will be much lighter and alittle lighter then the Z1

Khoi Pham · October 7th, 2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Laves

The hands on preview by B & H seemed to indicate that the Z5 has a slight advantage in low light when compared to the Z7. Even though they both have 1/3" CMOS sensors. The Z5 is supposed to have slightly better processing resulting in the slight advantage. I have a V1 and a 20X lens is nice. Too many choices. Someday they will have the "perfect" camcorder so the choice will be easy.

Both are rated at 1.5 lux at 1/25th shutter speed at autogain (probably 18db)

Scott Hayes · October 7th, 2008, 04:04 PM

big heavy hard drives? the SSD cards are the size of a stick of gum. You can get the Lexar 8gb cards for $40 each, and the Kensington ExpressCard adapter and San Disk Ultra II SDHC card will run you about $90-100. But thats 80 minutes per slot. dump them to your puter via usb card reader when you get home. I suggest browsing the XDCAM forum.

Greg Laves · October 7th, 2008, 06:39 PM

I have seen the 1.5 lux specs myself. BUT, B & H said the Z5 now incorporates "Exmor" technology. I don't know, does the Z7 have Exmor processing? One of the benefits of the Exmor processing is it supposed to have slightly better low light performance. It is also supposed to have slightly better color reproduction or some other similar claims. Maybe it was just propoganda since no one that I know of has actually done a real life test. I am just repeating what B & H said. It could be all lies.

Scott Caplan · October 7th, 2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes

big heavy hard drives? the SSD cards are the size of a stick of gum...But thats 80 minutes per slot

I'm pretty sure he was referring to archiving card-captured footage on hard drives, rather than having boxes of HD tapes as an archive. You'd need a lot of 1TB drives over time to capture those 16GB and 32GB cards over and over and over.

Luckily the WD "Green" 1TB drives are about $129 now and building a small RAID is easy.

Tom Hardwick · October 8th, 2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khoi Pham

Both are rated at 1.5 lux at 1/25th shutter speed at autogain (probably 18db)

Yes, auto gain. Sony seem to have gone stupid and started quoting low light lux figures with a shutter speed you'd never (willingly) use. Why don't they say it's a half-lux camera then, and keep stum about the 1/6th sec shutter speed?

I think they wanted to make it look as if it nearly matched the PD150.

tom.

Mark Sudfeldt · October 8th, 2008, 02:59 AM

One of the reasons I am planning to purchase the Z7 is because of the ability to put the camera into non-servo, truly manual focus. I see that another difference between the Z7 and the Z5 is that the Z5 is a servo assisted focus only camera which I would presume is a negative point.

I would be interested in hearing comments from those of you who use the Z7 in non-servo assisted mode as to how use full you find this feature to be.

Mark

October 7th, 2008, 10:05 AM	#1
Jeroen Wolf Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 355	Z5 or Z7? I currently own a Z1 and thought the Z5 was the natural choice for a next camera but then I noticed the Z5 sells for 3900 euro's and the Z7 for 4500. Since the Z7 includes the CF-recorder (worth around 700.- ?)and the option to change lenses, I would say there is no reason for me to buy the Z5... Or am I missing something? (based in the Netherlands, btw) Wolf

October 7th, 2008, 10:33 AM	#2
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	The Z7 may be seen as too big a step-up for a lot of current Z1 owners in as much as lots of them don't need the lens interchangeability and it's inability to work with their current non zoom-through wide-angle converters. The Z5 seems a more logical Z1 replacement to me. It fights off the Canon XH-A1 by matching its 20x zoom, looks and feels like the Z1 and moves up in the low-light stakes by using CMOS chips. But there go Sony again - subdividing the niche. tom.

October 7th, 2008, 10:59 AM	#3
Alex Williams New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Stratford CT Posts: 14	What is a z5? Is this the same as a z7u? If so the zoom is 12.

October 7th, 2008, 11:13 AM	#4
Jeroen Wolf Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 355	Hi Tom, thanks for the response. But you agree with me that -looking at these prices and given the fact I don't use WA converters- there is no reason for me NOT to buy the Z7. I can get a Z7 for less the price than Z5 plus CF-recorder plus the ability to change lenses (which ups the second hand value, I imagine) My big question is: Why did they price this -new- Z5 to be more expensive than the the Z7, based on the assumption that every potential Z5 buyer would want the optional CF-recorder? Or is this a wrong assumption? (and is't the issue of non-compatible WA converteres a marginal one?) Wolf

October 7th, 2008, 11:27 AM	#5
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Alex - would I lie to you? Jeroen - if you're quoting real street prices (and the Z5 has yet to be given one of these in reality) then yes, the Z7 looks to be a better bet. But you've got to want and need to change lenses to go for this camera - as EX3 owners do over EX1 buyers. If you're off on safari, no question. If you're a run 'n' gun man then the 20x plus a slim wide-converter gives you a huge focal length range. The Z5 is the one I'd choose to replace my Z1 with at this stage, but not before I'd had all three cameras laid out before me and a cool hour with which to play with them. The V1 was never in the running, but then I've always considered going down a chip size isn't an option. tom.

October 7th, 2008, 11:36 AM	#6
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	I was about to go down the same path. IF you can find an EX1 in the $5500 range, snatch it up and don't look back. Now that there are viable cheap alternatives to the SxS cards, it makes no sense to spend $5400 on a 1/3" chip camera. Archival hard drive space is dirt cheap as well for backing up. Just something else to consider, unless you like having tape backup.

October 7th, 2008, 02:26 PM	#8
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	The hands on preview by B & H seemed to indicate that the Z5 has a slight advantage in low light when compared to the Z7. Even though they both have 1/3" CMOS sensors. The Z5 is supposed to have slightly better processing resulting in the slight advantage. I have a V1 and a 20X lens is nice. Too many choices. Someday they will have the "perfect" camcorder so the choice will be easy.

October 7th, 2008, 04:04 PM	#11
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	big heavy hard drives? the SSD cards are the size of a stick of gum. You can get the Lexar 8gb cards for $40 each, and the Kensington ExpressCard adapter and San Disk Ultra II SDHC card will run you about $90-100. But thats 80 minutes per slot. dump them to your puter via usb card reader when you get home. I suggest browsing the XDCAM forum.

October 7th, 2008, 06:39 PM	#12
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	I have seen the 1.5 lux specs myself. BUT, B & H said the Z5 now incorporates "Exmor" technology. I don't know, does the Z7 have Exmor processing? One of the benefits of the Exmor processing is it supposed to have slightly better low light performance. It is also supposed to have slightly better color reproduction or some other similar claims. Maybe it was just propoganda since no one that I know of has actually done a real life test. I am just repeating what B & H said. It could be all lies.

October 8th, 2008, 02:59 AM	#15
Mark Sudfeldt Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 63	One of the reasons I am planning to purchase the Z7 is because of the ability to put the camera into non-servo, truly manual focus. I see that another difference between the Z7 and the Z5 is that the Z5 is a servo assisted focus only camera which I would presume is a negative point. I would be interested in hearing comments from those of you who use the Z7 in non-servo assisted mode as to how use full you find this feature to be. Mark