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Sony RX CyberShots and CX Series Camcorders
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Old November 5th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #61
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Art -

1 - I don't think they will be supporting yet another lens mount system... A & E are confusing enough - and this camera is supposedly moisture and dust resistant... an ILC would defeat much of the purpose. Plus, the whole idea of a 24-200 with constant aperture is to give a highly versatile dedicated range, in a small package... but 300mm might have been nice <wink>. Even so, the f/2.8 lens by itself would probably be almost half the camera price at least...

2 - The rec time limit might well be easy to remove, Panasonic has done it on at least SOME cameras. Don't see why Sony shouldn't follow...

3 - AVCHD dropped for what exactly? Compatibility is good with that format, maybe something with a higher bitrate, but then it would eat memory cards... (see below)

4 - There's already an XLR adapter option, albeit expensive, via the MIS (Multi interface shoe). I'm a bit leery of the FW50 battery life for video (wasn't impressed with NEX testing I did), but wouldn't want to add bulk and another potential "leak point" (see first point). I do wish they had gone with the BX or FV for compatibility with the other RX's or Handycams... a dual BX setup would make some sense...

5 - I liked the articulating screen on the FZ200 (and that it could flip around, ALA the Alpha cams to protect the screen when not in use!), and it does add a nice "video camera" quality, but the tilt has worked rather well for most situations, and likely will be more durable over the long term. Still, might be nice!

6 - This sensor is ALREADY a 4K+ sensor - and the Bionz X is supposedly able to process the 5K data stream coming off it. My suspicion is that there is no memory capable of handling UHD at the moment at a "consumer" price point, thus while the "hardware" may be capable, there's a missing link... no doubt that will change shortly, as UHD is coming.

7 - Prices typically stay pretty close or come down... but a Cybershot camera at $1300 is ALREADY going to impact the Handycam lines, if they put too much more into it, it actually might impact their "pro" cameras... the quote was telling as to the quality of the video...this IS a fully manual camera, with a relatively large sensor, and a pretty decent lens... and should take darn fine stills TOO, much better than the "still" function on a Handycam!


All that said, other than the record time, which I've already worked around using OTHER Cybershot cameras, and it's not a big deal if you're on your toes, the RX10 already checks a LOT of boxes for a "prosumer" video cam that will almost fit in your pocket....and take great stills too...

I've said elsewhere, this is a new animal, as were the previous "RX" releases - there isn't anything to compare it to exactly, and yet it has a lot of promise for "event" shooting. We will have to see how it holds up in "live fire", but sure looks good so far. I thought it was interesting to see the "idea guy" behind it! Hopefully it sells like hotcakes and we see more innovation in the future!
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Old November 5th, 2013, 09:01 PM   #62
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Art, i can't be as gracious as dave in response to your suggestions for sony

1- Quit asking companies for 4 times the camera and expect 0x the price-
2- Quit waiting for a mark 2 camera before a mark 1 is even out and shown its abilities
3- Did you seriously just suggest they make a whole new standard in lenses? Totally reasonable...
4- If a camera doesn't do what you want, find one that does, if the price isn't for you, that's your issue.

Sorry for the bluntness, but these kinds of posts are hyperbole and just plain stupid. companies already know you want everything for nothing, and no, they're not just going to give it to you.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 09:32 PM   #63
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

I think the "funny" thing is how many boxes the RX10 ticked, and it wasn't a camera ANYONE expected, or even speculated about... barely even any rumours in advance!

I know I was thinking, hmmm, the HX300 and the RX100M2 are pretty cool as a pair for most everything I really need... aside from the sticker shock, the RX10 hits a spot I'm happy with, as is! That's presuming there is not some strange fundamental flaw with it, but I don't see that happening...

It's "fun" to think about what "could be", but it's helpful to at least consider the physics (in the case of sensors and lenses), the economics (in the case of price points and markets), and the practical considerations (things like archaic tax situations on video clip limits).

I know for myself, I would have liked to see 4K, but only so I could experiment - the memory costs for now are probably too much to justify... the other stuff is quite literally "little stuff".

Perhaps one consideration that isn't on ANY spec sheet is that I'd expect this to be a FUN camera to shoot with - the HX300 and RX100M2 provide that in buckets, along with 1080/60p video and stills that I really can't complain about - now I just need some more HDD's to store all the "fun" I get to shoot because I'm not lugging around big cameras!!!
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Old November 5th, 2013, 10:08 PM   #64
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

This camera and cameras like these will bring you pleasure, and it will give you pain. Let me explain. This camera was designed to be an all around, all purpose camera suitable for weddings and events. Looks like it'll be child's play to get great images at an event. Now here's the problem. All of us professionals have invested quite a lot for the latest, greatest cameras you can afford. Say, for example, I have a Canon C100. When an RX10 is put in capable, professional hands, the images will look stunning. A shopping bride will not be able to distinguish the difference in picture quality between a C100 and the RX10. Now here's the pain. My competitor will buy 5 of these and will be able to run circles around what I am capable of now, all because of the incredibly low cost of the camera. The days when 1 camera was used to capture an event will be obsolete. Brides will want more, and it will be possible because of this low priced workhorse camera. Companies will begin to charge even less than what they are charging now to stay competitive, and the downhill spiral of video production will continue. More and more professionals will acquire bucketloads of these cheap, but capable cameras and change the way a "standard" video is shot. Oh, and don't forget that any college kid will be able to get one and try his hand at shooting weddings on the weekends too. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I'm just looking at reality head-on and trying to figure out what to do for the future.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #65
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

"Oh, and don't forget that any college kid will be able to get one and try his hand at shooting weddings on the weekends too."

This scenario happened a long time ago, like around 1995-96 when the miniDV format came around with the Mac G4 tower and firewire as an example, and somehow everyone got on the bandwagon. Anyone could have afforded a non-linear system back then. Even today, I know of more than a few that edit HD on a Macbook Pro burn on Blu-Ray and use Rebel cameras. The quality ain't the best, but they sure grab a lot of business from those that are seemingly " on a budget". It has become way too easy and affordable to instantly become a "cinematographer". Same goes for photography, there weren't many college students that knew how to handle a manual Hasselblad film camera and would not bother to take a photography course just for mastering the use of.
The auto exposure digital Canon of 2004 took care of the Hasselblad which eventually were either all sold off on eBay or served as door stoppers and paperweights. Videography became a lucrative way to make extra pocket money for the students over the weekend. So even if they charged little, who cares ? But when the recession hit in late 2008, it became obvious that this was a good source of income as well. That's when they became aggressive and started to compete with the pros. Welcome to the dog eat dog arena, let the most creative survive.
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Old November 6th, 2013, 02:08 AM   #66
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

As I see it the rx10 is just not the type of camera a beginner would be using, it's a fully manual camera that requires experience to get the most from it, you need to know how to control focus and exposure manually and you need to understand when to apply your ND's based on your f-stop, You can let any camera run in full automode but that doesn't make you a better videographer, no matter how good the camera is.
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Old November 6th, 2013, 02:10 AM   #67
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Steve Huff has a review up on Youtube.

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Old November 6th, 2013, 02:11 AM   #68
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Like other businesses before (I remember going into a print shop, complete with lead type and a printing press...), technology "disrupts" even as it "improves".

That print shop is long gone... as I would suppose are most... Film labs are an endangered species... compact cameras, video cameras and large segments of the "personal computer" market have almost vanished in a very short time...

Sure, there will always be "amateurs" entering into business, hoping to make enough to survive or buy an extra case of beer or whatever... a business is a business because it has what it takes to survive... talent, vision, capital, equipment, AND a service or product that people want to exchange sufficient amounts of money to sustain the expenses and a profit.

I don't see the RX10 as being so cheap as to be something most amateurs will buy... and there are PLENTY of cheaper "imaging devices" capable of high quality (or at least sufficiently high quality to please a client) output. This is not "new", it's been ongoing.

I'm looking at it as another potentially better "tool" - not for "everything", but for some things... and in 3-5 years, it will probably be "obsolete", with newer, "better", prolly UHD cameras, and that's just in cell phones <wink>. For now, if it's a better tool that gets better results and is reasonably priced, that's fine. If it advances imaging technology, great. If I get better results and it's easier to shoot with, whoo hoo!

Whether there will be business for wedding photographers/videographers... well I'm guessing people will still get married, and want a record of it... whether you or I or someone else is there to provide that service, and with what equipment, I'm sure there will be SOME business opportunity for those who wish to do it....

A camera that makes my "job" easier, with less gear to lug around... yeah, I'm OK with that... if it is cost effective, even better...
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Old November 6th, 2013, 02:24 AM   #69
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
As I see it the rx10 is just not the type of camera a beginner would be using, it's a fully manual camera that requires experience to get the most from it, you need to know how to control focus and exposure manually and you need to understand when to apply your ND's based on your f-stop, You can let any camera run in full automode but that doesn't make you a better videographer, no matter how good the camera is.

Yep - I'm sure it will, being a Sony, do a pretty decent job in "Superior or advanced auto", but to get the most out of it, you'll need to know some old fashioned things like aperture, shutter speed, white balance, etc....

I can vouch for the RX100 having been a bit of a shock with the "all manual" settings - took a while to get a handle on what the camera could REALLY do. The RX100M2 came easier, after using the M1 for a while, but it's part of what makes shooting "fun" again. Auto is great, but if you want to get creative, it's there for you.

I'm sure that there will be plenty of these available "lightly used", simply because it will go WAY over the head (and the needs) of the average user/buyer. The gap between a P&S compact or cell phone and this type of camera is more of a gigantic chasm! And to get the most out of a camera like this, you'll need to take time to learn how it works...
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Old November 6th, 2013, 04:50 AM   #70
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Here is 6th December
Sony RX10 Cybershot 20.2 MP Digital Still Camera with: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

Should have held back on my new pana g6 jeez my wife hates my spending
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